Jan 14, 2021 Special Session

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>>> COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN AND WE WILL BE LEAD IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE BY COUNCIL PERSON LITTLE. I WILL ASK IF YOU WILL STAND FOR OUR PRAYER AND FOLLOW WITH

OUR PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. >> LET US PRAY. FATHER, WE THANK YOU FOR THIS MOMENT AND WE THANK YOU FOR THE MOMENTS THAT COME BEFORE US.

LORD, I ASK WE MAKE DECISIONS IN THE WAY THAT YOU WOULD WANT US TO MAKE THEM AND ASK THAT YOU CONTINUE TO BLESS EACH AND EVERY FAMILY IN OUR COMMUNITY AND EVERY COUNCIL PERSON IN THIS ROOM TODAY AND THE ONES ON THEIR WAY. WE HOPE YOU HEAR OUR PRAYERS

EVERY SINGLE DAY. AMEN. >> AMEN.

>> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG -- >> MR. GARRETT.

>> HERE. >> MR. LITTLE. >> HERE.

>> MR. NIGHT. >> HERE. >> MR. SMITH.

>> HERE. >> MS. ALLEN. >> HERE.

>> MS. REYNOLDS. >> MS. EVANS MS. BUTLER. >> MAYOR PITTS.

>> HERE. >> MISS REYNOLDS. MISS STREETMAN.

>> HERE. >> MISS EVANS. NO RESPONSE.

>> THANK YOU, MADAM CLERK. THE NEXT ITEM IS THE APPROVAL OF ELECTRONIC MEETING TO

[5) APPROVAL OF ELECTRONIC MEETING]

I ENTERTAIN A MOTION AND A SECOND. >> I MOVE FOR APPROVAL.

>> SECOND. >> MOTION HAS BEEN MADE AND PROPERLY SECONDED.

ANY DISCUSSION ON THE MOTION? HEARING NONE AND SEEING NONE. MADAM CLERK.

>> MR. GARRETT. >> I. >> MR. RICHMOND.

>> I. >> MR. LITTLE. >> I.

>> MR. RHET. >> YES. >> MR. NYE.

>> YES. >> MS. SMITH. MR. HOLLERMAN.

>> I. >> MS. ALLEN. >> I.

>> MISS STREETMAN. >> I. >> MISS BUTLER.

>> I. >> MAYOR PITTS. >> I.

>> 11 YES. >> MOTION IS ADOPTED. I BELIEVE COUNCIL PERSON EVANS IS ON THE LINE NOW. I BELIEVE I SAW HER PICTURE POP UP.

>> I AM. >> AWESOME. THANK YOU.

>> LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAVE TWO ITEMS ON OUR AGENDA AND BEFORE WE GET TO THOSE TWO, I WANT TO BRAG A LITTLE BIT OR A LOT ON OUR FIRST RESPONDERS, OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT AND FIRE AND RESCUE AND EMS AND DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND ALL OF THOSE WHO RESPONDED TO THE UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT AT THE HOSPITAL LAST NIGHT. THEY SHOWED UP AND REPRESENTATIVE -- REPRESENTED US WELL. THANK YOU TO THE WOMEN AND MEN THAT WEAR THE UNIFORM AND RUN TOWARD DANGER WHEN THE REST OF US ARE RUNNING THE OTHER WAY IN SEEKING SHELTER.

SO TO THEM WE SAY THANK YOU. THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA IS A PRESENTATION REGARDING THE

[6) PRESENTATION REGARDING CITY ETHICS CODE]

BUT WE WILL HAVE A HARD STOP AT 4:30 TO ALLOW MISS HODGE TO PRESENT.

WITH THAT, MR. BAKER, IF YOU WOULD PLEASE WALK US THROUGH THE CITY'S ETHICS CODE.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR AMOUNT OF COUPLE OF HOUSEKEEPING THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, ALL CITY EMPLOYEES THAT INCLUDES UNDER THE ETHICS CODE THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE REQUIRED TO TAKE ANNUAL TRAINING ABOUT THE CITY ETHICS CODE.

I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE GETTING TRAINING -- YOU WILL BE GETTING TRAINING IN MY PRESENTATION TODAY. HR ALSO DOES THE ANNUAL ETHICS UPDATE REVIEW AND YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO TAKE THAT REVIEW. IT IS AN ONLINE AND THERE IS A

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THE OTHER THING IS I JUST ASK THAT YOU HOLD ALL QUESTIONS UNTIL THE END.

THAT WAY WE CAN MAKE SURE WE GET THROUGH IT ALL. WE WILL GO THROUGH THESE SLIDES IF I CAN GET IT TO WORK. JUST A LITTLE SOMETHING THERE.

WHAT SOME PEOPLE THINK ABOUT POLITICIANS AND LAWYERS IS THEY LEAVE THEIR ETHICS AT THE DOOR WHEN THEY STEP INTO A CAREER OF POLITICS. THAT'S CERTAINLY NOT TRUE.

I KNOW IT WON'T BE TRUE WITH REGARD TO THIS CITY COUNCIL. CAN WE GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE? THIS IS REALLY GOING TO BE ABOUT CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AND ETHICS.

THERE ARE THREE SOURCES OF LAUPER THANING TO -- OF LAW PERTAINING TO CONFLICTS OF ETHICS. IT COMES IN CODE ANNOTATED AND THEN THERE IS STATE LAW THAT IS OUR CITY PRIVATE ACT CHARTER. YOU MAY SAY, WELL, THAT CHARTER, THAT'S A LOCAL LAW, ISN'T IT? OUR CHARTER IS PASSED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND IT IS CLASSIFIED AS A PRIVATE ACT STATE LAW.

IT IS A STATE LAW. AND THEN THERE IS LASTLY OUR CITY CODE.

FIRST THING WE WILL TALK ABOUT WITH THE SOURCES OF LAW IS THE CITY -- RATHER THE STATE LAW, INTENSITY CODE ANNOTATED. FIRST THING IS CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

YOU WILL FIND THE STATE CONFLICT OF INTEREST PROVISION AND THAT IS TCA SECTION 12 SECTION 4-101. IT DEALS WITH THE PERSONAL INTEREST OF OFFICERS.

YOU ARE ALL CLASSIFIED AS OFFICERS, AS OFFICIALS OF THE CITY.

WHAT IT SAYS IN ESSENCE, IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR ANY OFFICER WHOSE DUTY IT IS TO VOTE FOR, OVERLOOK OR IN ANY MANNER TO SUPER INTEND ANY WORK OR ANY CONTRACT IN WHICH ANY MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SHALL OR MAY BE INTERESTED TO BE DIRECTLY INTERESTED IN SUCH CONTRACT. SO WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU CANNOT HAVE A DIRECT INTEREST IN ANY KIND OF CONTRACT THAT INVOLVES THE CITY. IF YOU GO FURTHER, YOU WILL READ DOWN A LITTLE FURTHER, AND I'M NOT GOING TO READ THE WHOLE SLIDE TO YOU.

YOU CAN READ THIS LATER IF YOU WANT TO GET THE DETAILS. IT ALSO SAYS THAT THIS SUBDIVISION A1 SHOULD NOT BEACON STREWED TO PROHIBIT ANY OFFICER -- BE CONSTRUED TO PROHIBIT ANY OFFICER FROM VOTING ON A BUDGET, AN APPROPRIATION RESOLUTION OR A TAX RATE RESOLUTION OR AMENDMENTS THERE TO UNLESS THE VOTE IS ON A SPECIFIC AMENDMENT TO THE BUDGET OR A SPECIFIC APPROPRIATION RESOLUTION IN WHICH SUCH PERSON IS DIRECTLY INTERESTED. SO IF ANY OF YOU HAVE A BUSINESS WHERE YOU MIGHT WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY OR ENTER INTO A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY, YOU PROBABLY NEED TO COME TALK TO ME ABOUT IT FIRST.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE -- YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN'T HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY.

WHETHER YOU CAN HAVE ONE IF IT IS YOUR SPOUSE OR AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER IT DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION. YOU PROBABLY CAN'T DO IT IN THAT SITUATION EITHER.

WHEN YOU VOTE ON THE BUDGET, FOR EXAMPLE, OR THE TAX RATE, IF YOU HAVE A IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER OR RELATIVE WHO WORKS FOR THE CITY THEN THIS PARTICULAR CONFLICT OF INTEREST PROVISION COULD BE IMPLICATED AS WELL THROUGH THE NEXT SLIDE WE WILL TALK ABOUT, INDIRECT INTEREST. YOU CAN STILL VOTE ON THE GENERAL BUDGET, BUT YOU CAN'T VOTE ON ANY AMENDMENT THAT COULD BE A BENEFIT TO A FAMILY MEMBER.

WE'LL TURN THE PAGE. THIS IS PART B. THIS DEALS WITH INDIRECT INTEREST. SAME THING. IF IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR ANY OFFICER WHOSE DUTY IT IS TO VOTE FOR IT, AND BY THE WAY IT IS YOUR DUTY TO VOTE FOR THE BUDGET EVERY YEAR AND TO OVER LOOK AND TO SUPER INTEND ALL OF THE WORK OF THE CITY AND ALL OF THE CONTRACTS OF THE CITY. YOU CAN'T BE EVEN INDIRECTLY INTERESTED IN ANY SUCH CONTRACT UNLESS UNLESS YOU PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR INTERESTS. THE WAY YOU DO THAT IS IN A MEETING AND YOU ACTUALLY STATE HERE IS WHAT MY INTEREST IS IN THIS. INDIRECTLY INTERESTED MEANS

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LET'S KEEP GOING BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT TO COVER. PERSONAL INTEREST OF OFFICERS PROHIBITED. WHAT I WANT YOU TO FOCUS ON IS THAT WHEN YOU READ THE CASES THAT HAVE INTERPRETED TCA 1241-1 AND THE LEADING CASES ARE SET FORTH IN THE SLIDE IT LOOKS AT YOUR PERSONAL FINANCIAL PECUNIARY INTEREST OR BENEFITS.

AND IT DETERMINES IF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST EXISTS UNDER THE STATUTE OUT.

IF YOU DO HAVE AN UNLAWFUL INTEREST, AND YOU DO VOTE ON SOMETHING OR RATHER YOU ENTER INTO A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY THAT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE, THEN THERE IS SOME PRETTY TOUGH PENALTIES FOR THAT. ANY PERSON ACTING AS AN OFFICER OR OTHER PERSON REFERRED TO IN 12-4-101, IF YOU ARE DIRECTLY OR UNLAWFULLY INDIRECTLY INTERESTED IN A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY, YOU FORFEIT ALL PAY AND COMPENSATION AND YOU ARE DISMISSED FROM YOUR OFFICE AND INELIGIBLE FOR THE SAME OR SIMILAR POSITION FOR 10 YEARS. SO THIS ONE IS -- MY ADVICE TO YOU IS DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY. DON'T ATTEMPT TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY.

IT HAS HAPPENED ONCE OR TWICE IN THE PAST. IT IS A PRETTY RARE THING.

THOSE PEOPLE GOT CAUGHT. THEY WEREN'T ACTUALLY CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

THEY WERE ACTUALLY EMPLOYEES. THEY LOST THEIR JOB. THIS WAS YEARS AGO.

KEEP GOING TOTH -- TO TCA, TENNESSEE CODE AN KNOW -- ANNOTATED.

IT IS 107. THIS IS SIMILAR TO THE PREVIOUS STATE STATUTE.

NO PERSON HOLDING OFFICE UNDER ANY MUNICIPAL CORPORATION SHALL DURING THE TIME YOU ARE ELECTED OR APPOINTED BE CAPABLE OF CONTRACTING WITH SUCH CORPORATION FOR THE PERFORMANCE AND WORK PAID OUT OF THE TREASURY. NO SUCH PERSON -- NOR SUCH PERSON BE CAPABLE OF HOLDING OR HAVING ANY OTHER DIRECT INTEREST IN SUCH A CONTRACT.

AGAIN, DIRECT INTEREST IS ESSENTIALLY DEFINED THE SAME WAY AS DIRECT INTEREST IS IN THE OTHER PROVISION. B BASICALLY MIRRORS THE OTHER STATE STATUTE AS WELL BEING WITH INDIRECT INTEREST. THE POINT IS THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT STATE STATUTES THAT PROHIBITS CONTRACTS WITH THE CITY. WE WILL GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AND ETHICS. THERE WERE THREE SOURCES OF LAW. THE FIRST WAS STATE STATUTES. WE WILL TALK ABOUT ANOTHER STATE LAW, BUT THAT IS OUR PRIVATE ACT CHARTER. IT IS THE CITY CHARTER.

THAT IS OUR CONSTITUTION FOR THE CITY. DID YOU -- AND YOU WILL SEE THE REASON THAT THIS SLIDE IS IN THERE, THE DEFINITION OF OFFICER SHALL MEAN AND INCLUDE THE MAYOR AND ALL CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. THE CHARTER DISCUSSES ARTICLE 6 SECTION 10 THE REQUIREMENT THAT WE HAVE AN ETHICS POLICY. THIS PROVISION IN THE CHARTER STEMS FROM A STATE LAW THAT WAS PASSED SEVERAL YEARS AGO THAT REQUIRED ALL LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, COUNTIES, CITIES AND TOWNS TO HAVE A CODE OF ETHICS.

THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU WHAT YOU HAD TO PUT IN IT OTHER THAN IT HAD TO ADDRESS CERTAIN TYPES OF SUBJECTS. THEY DIDN'T SPELL OUT WHAT EXACTLY IT HAD TO SAY.

SO IN RESPONSE TO THAT LEGISLATION, THE TENNESSEE MUNICIPAL TECHNICAL ADVISORY SERVICE CALLED MTAS WHICH I HOPE YOU ARE GETTING FAMILIAR WITH AND I SENT YOU E-MAILS ABOUT EARLIER, THEY DRAFTED A MODEL ETHICS POLICY. AND CITIES AND TOWNS AND COUNTIES ALL ACROSS TENNESSEE ADOPTED THE POLICY. WE DID AS WELL.

THAT POLICY HAS BEEN ON THE BOOKS NOW FOR -- EVER SINCE THAT STATE LAW PASSED WHICH WAS SEVERAL, SEVERAL YEARS AGO. PROBABLY 20 YEARS AGO NOW.

CAN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY. AND SO THE POINT HERE IS THAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE AN ETHICS POLICY BY STATE LAW. AND WE ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE IT BY OUR CHARTER AS WELL.

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CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, OURS DOES, FINANCIAL INTEREST, OURS DOES.

USE OF INFORMATION AND CITY PROPERTY, OURS DOES. IT MUST ADDRESS EMPLOYEES AND ELECTED OFFICIALS. OF COURSE, OUR ETHICS POLICY, WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION THE OTHER NIGHT AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ORDINANCE 60. IT APPLIES TO WHAT ARE CALLED EMPLOYEES, BUT THE ETHICS CODE ITSELF DEFINES EMPLOYEES TO INCLUDE ELECTED AND APPOINTED OFFICIALS WHICH WILL INCLUDE Y'ALL. AND THE NOTE THAT THE CODE OF ETHICS MAY BE AMENDED, ALTERED AND CHANGED BY A TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY VOTE OF THE ENTIRE MEMBERSHIP OF THE COUNCIL. THREE SOURCES OF LAW WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IS THE CITY CODE. THE CITY CODE IN TITLE ONE DEALS WITH ADMINISTRATION OFFICERS AND PERSONNEL. CHAPTER SIX IS WHERE YOU WILL FIND THE CITY'S CODIFIED CODE OF ETHICS. IT STARTS WITH 1-601. IT IS WHAT THE CITY CODE OF ETHICS APPLIES TO. IT APPLIES TO EMPLOYEES. AGAIN, EMPLOYEES INCLUDES ALL FULL TIME AND EVEN PART-TIME ELECTED OR APPOINTED OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES WHETHER COMPENSATED OR NOT INCLUDING THOSE OF ANY SEPARATE BOARD, COUNCIL, COMMISSION, COMMITTEE, AUTHORITY, CORPORATION OR OTHER INSTRUMENTALITY APPOINTED OR CREATED BY THE CITY. THEN THIS TALKS ABOUT SOME OF THE REASONS WHY WE WANT TO HAVE A CODE OF ETHICS AND THE PURPOSE BEHIND IT. THE MEAT OF THE ETHICS CODE STARTS WITH SECTION 1-602 WHERE IT DESCRIBES EMPLOYEE RESPONSIBILITIES.

THE FIRST PART SAYS EACH EMPLOYEE SHALL AVOID ANY ACTION WHETHER OR NOT SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY STATUTE, REGULATION OR THIS CHAPTER.

IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE AREAS IT WANTS US TO ALL BE ETHICAL IN SPIRIT.

EVEN IF THERE IS NOT SOME SPECIFIC LAW THAT YOU HAVE VIOLATED, THE CODE CONTEMPLATES AND IT REALLY REQUIRES THAT EVERYONE TRY THEIR BEST OR -- NOT TRY, BUT DO IN AN ETHICAL WAY OR MANNER. EACH EMPLOYEE SHALL AVOID ANY ACTION WHETHER OR NOT SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY LAW THAT MIGHT RESULT IN OR EVEN JUST CREATE THE APPEARANCE OF AND THEN THERE IS A LONG LAUNDRY LIST OF THINGS.

NUMBER ONE, USING PUBLIC OFFICE FOR PRIVATE GAIN. TWO, GIVING PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT TO ANY PERSON OR ORGANIZATION. THREE, IMPEDING GOVERNMENTY -- GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY OR ECONOMY. INDEPENDENCE OR I'M PAR SHE Y'ALL TEE. FIVE, MAKING GOVERNMENT DECISIONS OUTSIDE OFFICIAL CHANNELS. SIX, AFFECTING ADVERSELY THE CONFIDENCE IN THE PUBLIC AND THE INTEGRITY OF GOVERNMENT. AND THEN SEVEN AND EIGHT DEAL WITH REALLY WHAT ARE CALLED CONFLICTS OF INTEREST OF ELECTED OFFICIALS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS AND IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS. YOU CAN READ IT, BUT WHAT IT SAYS, IF YOU IN A JOINT BUSINESS OWNERSHIP OR JOINT CONSULTANT MANAGEMENT OF A BUSINESS WITH ANY OTHER CITY EMPLOYEE. YOU CANNOT BE A JOINT CONSULTANT MANAGEMENT OF A BUSINESS WITH ANY OTHER CITY EMPLOYEE. APPOINTED OFFICIALS ARE SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED FROM CITY EMPLOYEE AND THIS SUBSECTION SHALL NOT PROHIBIT AN ELECTED OFFICIAL FROM BEING IN A JOINT BUSINESS OWNERSHIP OR JOINT BUSINESS WITH AN OFFICIAL. YOU CAN DO IT AMONG YOURSELVES AS ELECTED OFFICIALS.

WHAT THIS IS REALLY GETTING AT IS TRUE EMPLOYEES OF THE CITY OF BEING IN BUSINESS TOGETHER. 8, ELECTED OFFICIALS AND ANY IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER, THAT JUST CARRIES OUT THE SAME THING AS SEVEN, BUT IT ALSO EXTENDS IT TO ANY IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER FROM OWNING OR OTHERWISE BEINGSTOCKHOLDERS IN E CORPORATION WITH AN APPOINTED OFFICIAL INCLUDING ANY IMMEDIATE FAMILY OF THE APPOINTED OFFICIAL.

I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T ADVANCE THAT SLIDE THERE.

NECKS IS 61-6 -- 6 IS SECTION 1-603 DEALING WITH GRATUITIES.

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NO EMPLOYEE SHALL SOLICIT OR ACCEPT DIRECTLY OR EVEN JUST INDIRECTLY ON BEHALF OF HIMSELF OR HERSELF OR ANY MEMBER OF THE EMPLOYEE'S HOUSEHOLD ANY GIFT.

ANY GIFT. INCLUDING AND NOT LIMITED THANK YOU ANY GRATUITY, FOOD, LODGING, LOAN GRARN TEE OR ANY OTHER ITEM OF MONETARY VALUE FROM ANY PERSON OR ENTITY THAT HAS OR IS SEEKING TO OBTAIN CONTRACTUAL OR OTHER BUSINESS OR FINANCIAL RELATIONS WITH ANY DEPARTMENT OF CITY GOVERNMENT. MEANING WITH THE CITY ITSELF.

OR CONDUCTS OPERATIONS OR ACTIVITIES WITH THE CITY. VERY BROADLY WORDED.

NUMBER THREE, OR HAS INTERESTS THAT MAY BE SUBSTANTIALLY AFFECTED BY THE PERFORMANCE OR NONPERFORMANCE OF THE EMPLOYEE'S OFFICIAL DUTIES. WHAT THIS MEANS IS, THIS SECTION, IS NO -- NOT ONLY YOURSELF, BUT MEMBERS OF YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY, YOU CAN'T ACCEPT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, AND WHAT INDIRECTLY IS REFERRING TO IS THROUGH YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS. YOU CAN'T ACCEPT GIFTS FROM SOMEONE OR SOME BUSINESS THAT HAS A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY. OR EVEN THAT IS SEEKING TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY.

OR HAS FINANCIAL RELATIONS SOMEHOW WITH THE CITY. THAT DOES NOT MEAN OR INCLUDE BECAUSE SOME BUSINESS PAYS TAXES. THAT'S NOT WHAT IS CONTEMPLATED HERE. IT IS SOMEONE OR SOME BUSINESS THAT ACTUALLY HAS A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY. CONDUCTS OPERATIONS OR ACTIVITIES WITH THE CITY.

IF SOMEBODY -- IF A CONSULTANT OR SOME BUSINESS, ANY NUMBER OF FACTUAL SCENARIOS YOU CAN THINK OF THAT IS WORKING WITH THE CITY OR CONDUCTS SOME KIND OF OPERATIONS WITH THE CITY, THEN YOU CANNOT ACCEPT A GIFT FROM THEM, OR HAS INTERESTS THAT MAY BE SUBSTANTIALLY ACCEPTED BY THE PERFORMANCE OR NONPERFORMANCE OF THE DUTIES. YOU DON'T WANT TO PUT YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE CAN ACCUSE YOU AND GO, OH, WELL YOU GOT A GIFT OF WHATEVER, AND THAT PERSON IS DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY, OR THEY ARE WANTING TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY, AND YOU ARE GOING TO BE VOTING ON THE BUDGET.

THAT'S NOT RIGHT. THAT'S NOT GOOD. YOU WANT TO JUST -- IT IS BETTER TO JUST TURN DOWN GIFTS FROM PEOPLE. NOW.

NOW, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT RULE. 1-604 CONTAINS EXCEPTIONS.

THE PROHIBITION ON ACCEPTING GIFTS IN SECTION 1-603 DOES NOT APPLY TO A GIFT GIVEN BY A MEMBER OF THE EMPLOYEE'S IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR BY AN INDIVIDUAL IF THE GIFT IS GIVEN FOR A NONBUSINESS PURPOSE AND MOTIVATED BY A CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDSHIP AND NOT BY THE POSITION OF THE EMPLOYEE. SO LET'S SAY YOU ARE FRIENDS WITH SOMEONE WHO OWNS A BUSINESS, AND THEY HAPPEN TO BE DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY. THIS PERSON, YOU HAVE KNOWN THEM SINCE KINDERGARTEN AND Y'ALL HAVE BEEN FRIENDS FOREVER. YOU ARE REALLY CLOSE.

THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU GIFTS THROUGHOUT YOUR LIFE, AND MAYBE YOU HAVE GIVEN THEM GIFTS. JUST THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE NOW BEEN ELECTED TO THE CITY COUNCIL DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY HAVE TO STOP GIVING YOU GIFTS.

OKAY? IT IS JUST A COMMON SENSE PROVISION HERE.

YOU REALLY OUGHT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT IT. SOMEBODY CAN SAY, WELL, THEY ARE GIVING THEM A REALLY NICE GIFT BECAUSE THEY ARE ON THE COUNCIL.

THEY HAVE A CONTRACT WITH THE CITY, AND THAT'S NOT RIGHT. YOU HAVE TO EXERCISE SOME COMMON SENSE ABOUT IT, BUT YOU ALSO NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT IT.

NUMBER TWO, THE PROHIBITION ON ACCEPTING GIFTS DOES NOT APPLY TO INFORMATIONAL MATERIALS IN THE FORM OF BOOKS, ARTICLES, PERIODICALS AND SO FORTH. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO GIVE UH BOOK OR A MAGAZINE OR AUDIO/VIDEOTAPE OR SOMETHING IN CONNECTION WITH THEIR BUSINESS OR JUST BECAUSE OF A FRIENDSHIP YOU MAY HAVE WITH THEM, AND THEY HAPPEN TO BE DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY, THAT'S OKAY. INFORMATIONAL MATERIALS YOU CAN ACCEPT THAT TYPE OF GIFT. NUMBER THREE, UNSOLICITED TOKENS ARE AWARDS OF APPRECIATION, HONORARY DEGREES, BONE-FIDE AWARDS RECOGNITION OF PUBLIC SERVICE

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THOSE ARE GIFTS TOO TECHNICALLY AS DEFINED BY THE ETHICS CODE, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO TURN THAT DOWN. THAT COULD CAUSE EMBARRASSMENT AND HURT PEOPLE'S FEELINGS.

WE DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE TO DO THAT. YOU CAN, BY ALL MEANS, ACCEPT AWARDS OF APPRECIATION. WHEN WE SAY AN AWARD, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A $500 GIFT CERTIFICATE. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE -- YOU KNOW, NOT A PLACARD, BUT A CERTIFICATE, HONORARY DEGREES AND SO FORTH.

IT IS PERFECTLY FINE TO ACCEPT THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. CONTINUING ON ABOUT THE EXCEPTIONS TO ACCEPTING GIFTS. NUMBER FOUR, THIS ONE PROBABLY GETS ASKED ABOUT MORE OFTEN THAN ANY OTHER ONE. ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO THE CITY EMPLOYEES. FOOD REFRESH MEANT AND ENTERTAINMENT OR BEVERAGES PROVIDED AS PART OF A MEAL OR OTHER EVENT. IF THE VALUE OF SUCH ITEM DOES NOT EBBING -- EXCEED $50 PER OCCASION, PER EMPLOYEE ATTENDING THE EVENT.

LOTS OF TIMES EMPLOYEES, AND THIS WILL HAPPEN WITH Y'ALL TOO, YOU WILL GET INVITED TO SOME KIND OF AN EVENT. PEOPLE WANT TO HONOR YOU. PEOPLE SOMETIMES WANT TO HONOR OUR EMPLOYEES ESPECIALLY, OUR PUBLIC SAFETY PERSONNEL, FIREMEN, POLICEMEN, AND THEY INVITE THEM TO SOME DINNER, FOR EXAMPLE. THAT'S OKAY.

YOU CAN ACCEPT THAT AS LONG AS THE VALUE OF IT IS NO MORE THAN $50 PER PERSON.

SO IF YOUR SPOUSE GETS INVITED , BASICALLY IT HAS TO BE UNDER $100.

IT IS $50 PER PERSON PER OCCASION. AND THERE IS AN OUT THAT CAN BE EXTENDED BEYOND THAT. IF YOU READ FURTHER, MAYBE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE REFUSAL OR A REIMBURSEMENT OF A GIFT OR DINING WITH A VALUE OF $50 MAY BE AWKWARD IN CONTRARY TO THE CITY, AND IN SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES YOU ARE TO DISCLOSE THE GIFT DINNER INCLUDING A DESCRIPTION, ESTIMATED VALUE, THE PERSON OR ENTITY PROVIDING THE GIFT DINNER WITHIN 14 CALENDAR DAYS OF THE OCCURRENCE TO THE INTERNAL AUDITOR OR DIRECTOR OF FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION, AND THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT ACTUALLY HAS A SPECIAL FORM THEY HAVE CREATED TO ALLOW YOU TO DO THAT. ANYBODY -- SOMEBODY MAY WONDER, WHEN WILL THAT COME UP? ONE TYPE OF SITUATION MAY BE, WE HAVE SISTER CITIES IN KOREA AND MAYBE -- I FORGOT WHERE THE OTHER ONE IS.

THEY MAY WANT TO PUT ON MAYBE AN ELABORATE MEAL AND PROVIDE IT FREE TO EMPLOYEES, TO THE MAYOR, OR MAYBE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL AND IT MAY BE WORTH MORE THAN $50.

IF YOU WERE TO TURN THAT DOWN, IT MIGHT EMBARRASS THEM, AND IT COULD REFLECT BADLY ON THE CITY. SO THAT'S WHAT THIS PROVISION IS GETTING AT.

SITUATIONS LIKE THAT WHERE THE GREATER INTERESTS OF THE CITY LIE IN NOT CAUSING A SOCIAL FAUX-PAS AND EMBARRASSMENT TO THE CITY. YOU CAN THEN ACCEPT IT.

YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT IT. IF YOU ARE GOING TO ACCEPT IT ON THESE GROUNDS YOU HAVE TO DISCLOSE IT AND USE THE FORM. NUMBER FIVE, AN ADDITIONAL EXCEPTION TO ACCEPTING GIFTS, FOOD, REFRESHMENTS, ENTERTAINMENT, BEVERAGE OR INTERSTATE TRAVEL THAT ARE PROVIDED IN CONNECTION TO AN EVENT WHERE AN EMPLOYEE IS A SPEAKER OR PART OF A PANEL DISCUSSION AND A MEETING IS ESTABLISHED TO RECOGNIZE MEMBERSHIP. ALL OF YOUR DEPARTMENT HEADS AND MANY OF THE TOP MANAGEMENT BELOW THE DEPARTMENT HEADS AND FRANKLY I THINK SEVERAL OF -- ACTUALLY ALL OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS TOO ARE GOING TO BE MEMBERS OF VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE DEPARTMENT HEADS, WE ARE ALL A PART OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT PERTAIN TO OUR PARTICULAR AREA. YOU KNOW, LIKE THE TENNESSEE STATE ASSOCIATION OF STREET DEPARTMENT DIRECTORS OR THE TENNESSEE ASSOCIATION OF PARKS AND RECREATIONAL DIRECTORS.

YOU MAY BE PART OF SOMETHING TOO LIKE MAYBE THE, I DON'T KNOW, NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF CITY LEGISLATORS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IF YOU ARE, AND YOU ATTEND THESE MEETINGS AND YOU GET FREE STUFF AT IT, YOU CAN ACCEPT IT.

WE'LL KEEP GOING. NUMBER 6, LOANS ESTABLISHED FROM FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS MADE IN THE ORDINARY COURSE OF BUSINESS ON USUAL CUSTOMARY TERMS SO LONG AS THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES OR COLLATERAL PROVIDED TO ANY PERSON AS DESCRIBED IN SECTION 1603.

SO THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE CODE OF ETHICS IN YOU GETTING LOANS FROM BANKS AND

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SO YOU CAN STILL GET LOANS AND DO BANKING BUSINESS WITH WHOEVER YOU WANT TO BANK WITH DESPITE THE FACT THAT THAT BANK MAY DO BUSINESS WITH THE CITY.

NUMBER 7, ANOTHER EXCEPTION IS MONEY, GOODS OR ANY OTHER COMMODITY DONATED TO ANY EMPLOYEE FOR DISTRIBUTION TO ANY SEGMENT OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

FOR EXAMPLE, MONEY DONATED TO THE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE BY PRIVATE RETAILERS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SELECTING UNDER PRIVILEGED CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, FOR GIFTS.

AND THIS OFTEN HAPPENS, OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT, OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT, THEY ARE OFTEN CONTACTED BY INDIVIDUALS AND BUSINESSES SAYING WE WANT TO DONATE THINGS FOR KIDS OR EVEN FOR ANY NUMBER OF CHARITABLE REASONS. AND SO THE ETHICS CODE, PLAIN COMMON SENSE, DOES NOT PROHIBIT THOSE EMPLOYEES FROM ACCEPTING THOSE TYPES OF GIFTS.

NUMBER EIGHT -- AM I AT NUMBER EIGHT? I CAN'T TELL.

OKAY. NUMBER EIGHT, SAMPLE MERCHANDISE AND PRO POTIONAL -- PROMOTIONAL ITEMS AND APPRECIATION TOKENS. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HELP -- HAVE MONETARY VALUE YOU CAN ACCEPT THAT AS A GIFT.

NOW, THE STATE LAWS AS I SAID IT ALSO REQUIRES US TO ADDRESS FINANCIAL INTERESTS.

SO 1-605 DOES THAT. NO EMPLOYEE SHALL ENTER INTO OR DERIVE ANY BENEFIT DIRECT OTHER OR INDIRECTLY, WHAT DOES THIS SOUND LIKE? THE STATE LAW.

WE COVERED THIS, BUT IT IS IN THE CITY ETHICS CODE AS WELL. SO SHALL DERIVE ANY BENEFIT DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM ANY CON -- CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT WITH ANY CITY AGENCIES. THEN IT CARVED OUT A CAVEAT FOR -- THAT RECOGNIZES THAT PEOPLE ARE MARRIED. IT SAYS IN RECOGNITION OF THE FACT THAT MANY HUSBANDS AND WIVES HAVE SEPARATE CAREERS, THE NORMAL EMPLOYMENT COME PEN NATION OF A SPOUSE -- COMPENSATION OF A SPOUSE WHOSE REGULAR ON GOING EMPLOYER OR BUSINESS HAS A CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENT OF THE CITY SHALL NOT BE CONSIDERED A BENEFIT TO THE EMPLOYEE PROVIDED THE CONTRACT WITH THE CITY WAS PROCURED WITHOUT ANY PARTICIPATION ASSISTANCE OR INFLUENCE BY THE EMPLOYEE, AND THAT EMPLOYEE MUST DISCLOSE SUCH CONTRACTS.

SO IF YOU'RE MARRIED TO SOMEONE, AND BEFORE YOU GOT ON THE COUNCIL AND THEY WERE DOING BUSINESS FOR -- BUSINESS WITH THE CITY FOR YEARS AND THE CITY WANTS TO CONTINUE DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM. THEY PROVIDE A GOOD SERVICE AND A GOOD PRODUCT, AND IT IS THE BEST PRICE, WHATEVER, THE ETHICS CODE RECOGNIZES WE ARE NOT GOING TO STOP THAT.

IT MAY BE IN THE CITY'S BEST INTEREST TO CONTINUE THAT BUSINESS ARRANGEMENT SIMPLY BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT THE SPOUSE WORKS FOR THE CITY OR IS AN ELECTED COUNCILMEMBER OF THE CITY. BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY INFLUENCE OVER THE CONTRACTING PROCESS. IT GOES ON TO STATE IT SHALL NOT BEACON STREWED FOR ANY MEMBER -- BE CONSTRUED ANY MEMBER, AUTHORITY, CORPORATION FROM BENEFITING DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM CONTRACTULE AGREEMENTS WITH THE AGENCY SO LONG AS IT PROVIDES FOR SUBSECTION B. WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A SECOND.

NO MEMBER OF ANY APPOINTED BOARD, COMMITTEE, AUTHORITY, SO FORTH SHALL VOTE ON ANY MATTER WHERE THE MEMBER OR THE MEMBERS OF IMMEDIATE FAMILY WOULD BENEFIT EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY AND MANY CONTRACTUAL ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE CITY.

SAY YOU ARE MARRIED TO SOMEONE AND DOING BUSINESS WITH THE CITY AND IT WAS GOING ON FOR YEARS EVEN BEFORE YOU WERE ELECTED. AT SOME POINT THE CITY COUNCIL WILL VOTE ON A CONTRACT OR MAYBE YOU ARE JUST VOTING ON A BUDGET.

ONE OF THE LINE ITEMS IN THE BUDGET CONTAINS PURCHASING SOMETHING FROM SOMEBODY.

AND THEN YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE ON THAT SPECIFIC MATTER.

IT WOULD BE INVOLVING YOUR SPOUSE'S BUSINESS INTEREST. 1-605B.

NO EMPLOYEE SHALL HAVE A DIRECT OR INDIRECT FINANCIAL INTEREST THAT CONFLICTS SUBSTANTIALLY OR APPEARS TO CONFLICT SUB -- SUBSTANTIALLY WITH HIS OR HER GOVERNMENTAL RESPONSIBILITIES AND DUTIES. THEY WILL DISCLOSE ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST OR CITY OR

[00:35:06]

A LOT OF TIMES THEY WANT TO GET IT REZONED. SO ANYTIME THAT WOULD HAPPEN AND IT WOULD GO THROUGH THE COMMISSION AND COME THROUGH THE COUNCIL HE WOULD ALWAYS ABSTAIN FROM VOTING, BUT NOT ONLY WOULD HE ABSTAIN FROM VOTING, HE WOULD DISCLOSE THAT I HAVE AN INTEREST IN THIS. THIS PROPERTY I OWN IT. AND WE HAVE AN INTEREST IN IT AND WE DISCLOSE THAT. THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

>> WINDING DOWN AND 1-606. NO EMPLOYEE SHALL DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY, MEANING THREE OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS USE OR DISCLOSE OR ALLOW THE USE OF OFFICIAL INFORMATION WHICH WAS OBTAINED THROUGH OR IN CONNECTION WITH HIS OR HER GOVERNMENT EMPLOY -- EMPLOYMENT WHICH WAS NOT MADE AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC FOR THE PURPOSE OF FURTHERING THE PRIVATE INTERESTS OR THE PERSONAL PROFIT OF ANY PERSON INCLUDING THE EMPLOYEE OR ENGAGE IN A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION AS A RESULT OF OR PRIMARILY RELYING UPON INFORMATION OBTAINED FROM HIS OR HER GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT.

I LIKE TO CALL THIS THE INSIDER INFORMATION PROVISION.

IF YOU ARE ON THE INSIDE AS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER AND YOU TALK TO SOME DEPARTMENT HEAD, MAYBE THE STREET DEPARTMENT, MAYBE GAS AND WATER DEPARTMENT AND YOU LEARN, HEY, WE ARE GOING TO BE SUBMITTING PLANS TO BUILD A NEW ROAD THROUGH SOME PARTICULAR AREA OF THE CITY AND YOU GO, MAN, I NEED TO GO AND MAYBE MAKE AN OFFER ON THAT PROPERTY.

I CAN BUY IT CHEAP AND THEN SELL IT TO THE CITY FOR A WHOLE LOT MORE.

THAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF YOU USING INSIDER INFORMATION TO FURTHER YOUR OWN PERSONAL GAIN. IF THERE IS ANY OTHER TYPES OF FACTUAL SCENARIOS THAT CAN COME UP, BUT THAT IS THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE. YOU LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT MAYBE EVEN SOME GENERAL ZONING CHANGES. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CHANGES TO THE SPECIFIC TRACKS, BUT MAYBE YOU TALK TO JEFF TINDEL AND HE SAYS WE ARE GETTING READY TO SUBMIT A NEW OVER LAY OR WE ARE GETTING READY TO SUBMIT A GENERAL MAP CHANGE THAT WILL AFFECT LARGE AREAS OF THE CITY. YOU GO TELL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT IT. YOU DON'T PROFIT YOURSELF, PERSONALLY, BUT YOU TELL SOMEBODY ELSE ABOUT IT AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT IS COMING DOWN THE PIPE, THAT IS ALSO A VIOLATION OF THE ETHICS CODE. CAN'T USE THE INFORMATION THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE.

WHEN IT IS KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC, HAS BEEN RELEASED IN SOMEWAY, THEN YOU CAN SHARE IT WITH WHOEVER YOU WANT TO. 1-607, USE OF CITY PROPERTY, NO EMPLOYEE SHALL MAKE USE OF FACILITIES, PERSONNEL OR SUPPLIES FOR PRIVATE USE OR GAIN EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT THE USE IS INCIDENTAL OR LAWFULLY AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

SO THAT IS THE CONCLUSION OF MY PRESENTATION. >> THANK YOU, MR. BAKER.

ANY QUESTIONS FROM COUNCIL REGARDING THIS PRESENTATION? >> OKAY.

>> LET ME JUST SAY THAT IF YOU DO HAVE QUESTIONS AND YOU DON'T HAVE THEM READY NOW, I'M AVAILABLE AT ANYTIME. IF YOU CAN'T -- IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO ME CALL MY ASSISTANT AND YOU CAN COME IN AND SEE ME OR E-MAIL ME OR CALL ME. I THINK IT IS ALWAYS BETTER TO CALL AND TALK TO ME ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT FROM AN ETHICS STANDPOINT, AND THEN EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE SITUATION IS, AND WE WILL WALK THROUGH IT TOGETHER. WE WILL ANALYZE IT AND TALK THROUGH IT.

IT IS BETTER TO DO IT ON THE FRONT END THAN TO BE WONDERING ON THE BACK END, OH, DID I JUST COMMIT AN ETHICS VIOLATION? OUR EMPLOYEES -- AND NOW I AM

[00:40:01]

THE DEPARTMENT HEADS AND EMPLOYEES, THEY ARE REALLY, REALLY GOOD ABOUT COMING TO ME AND TALKING TO ME ABOUT SITUATIONS THEY ARE UNSURE OF BEFORE THEY ACT.

>> COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN, I THINK ARE YOU DECIPHERED YOUR QUESTION.

>> YES. YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT GROUPS -- LIKE CITY COUNCILMEN -- COUNCIL MEMBERS OF AMERICA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> YES. >> IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IF WE WANTED TO JOIN SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS THAT SOMETHING WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR PAYING FOR?

>> UNLESS -- HERE IS HOW THAT WORKS. YOU CAN JOIN ANYTHING YOU WANT TO JOIN IF YOU ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. THE COUNCIL, I THINK, BUT HAVE I TO DEFER TO LORI MOTTA, THE MAYOR, MS. SKINNER, THERE IS BUDGETED FUNDS FOR THAT EVERY YEAR. I KNOW FOR THE MAYOR LIKE THE NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF MAYORS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING FOR CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TOO.

IF THERE IS NOT FUNDS FOR THAT , YOU CAN CERTAINLY ASK THE MAYOR TO INCLUDE THAT AT THE TIME OF THE BUDGET. YOU CAN OFFER AN AMENDMENT FOR THAT.

I AM CERTAIN THERE ARE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THAT, BUT I JUST CAN'T THINK OF WHAT THE

NAME OF IT IS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. >> TENNESSEE MUNICIPAL LEAGUE,

AREA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND THINGS LIKE THAT. >> THARYTD -- THAT'S RIGHT.

AND I BELIEVE THE CITY IS ALWAYS A MEMBER OF THE TENNESSEE MUNICIPAL LEAGUE.

AND THAT IS AN ORGANIZATION MADE UP BY AND FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS OF TOWNS AND CITIES. I WRIL -- I WILL TELL YOU THAT MY EXPERIENCE, IT IS A GREAT RESOURCE FOR YOU. THEY PUT ON EXCELLENT SEMINARS.

PRE COVID THEY DID. THEY HAVE EXCELLENT, YOU KNOW, WEEK LONG OR HALF WEEK LONG MEETINGS WHERE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE STATE COME AND THEY HEAR PRESENTATIONS ON SPEAKERS ON EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN AND IT IS AN SLEPT RESOURCE -- AN EXCELLENT RESOURCE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CANCELED IT AND MADE IT VIRTUAL, BUT I'M SURE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO ATTEND IT VIRTUALLY AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET BACK TO ATTENDING IN PERSON.

IT IS AN OUTSTANDING RESOURCE. YOU WILL LEARN A LOT BEING A PART OF THAT ORGANIZATION. THAT ORGANIZATION BY THE WAY EXISTS TO SERVE CITIES AND TOWNS, AND THEY HAVE LOBBYISTS THAT LOBBY THE TENNESSEE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON BEHALF -- TO TRY TO GET THINGS PUSHED THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE THAT ARE BENEFICIAL TO CITIES AND TOWNS AND TO TRY TO KILL THINGS IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT HURT CITIES AND TOWNS.

>> THE NEXT QUESTION IS WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHEN IT REFERS TO CITY COUNCIL.

THERE WAS A SLIDE WHERE YOU HAD SEVERAL DIFFERENT MEANINGS, BUT IN THE CODE OF THE CITY COUNCIL. IS THAT CITY COUNCIL EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM, OR IS THAT JUST

THE COUNCIL MEMBERS? >> I AM NOT -- >> YOU HAD A SLIDE --

>> CITY COUNCIL IS JUST THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. >> SO ANYWHERE IN THE CODE WHERE IT SAYS CITY COUNCIL, THAT IS TALKING ABOUT JUST THE WARD COUNCIL PEOPLE.

NOT MAYOR. >> IF IT REFERS -- NO. THAT'S NOT CORRECT.

UNDER THE CHARTER, THE MAYOR IS DEFINED AS A MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL.

>> THAT WAS MY QUESTION. >> YES, MA'AM. THE MAYOR IS OFFICIALLY DEFINED AS A MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL. THAT IS UNLIKE MANY CHARTERS IN THE STATE. NOT TO SAY WE ARE THE ONLY ONES LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE SEVERAL CHARTERS WHERE THE MAYOR IS A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL.

IN SOME CITIES AND TOWNS THE MAYOR IS NOT PART -- I THINK METRO IS LIKE THIS, BUT THE MAYOR IS NOT PART OF THE CITY COUNCIL. IN OUR CHARTER HE IS OR SHE

IS. >> THANK YOU. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A QUESTION OF MR. BAKER?

COUNCIL PERSON BUTLER, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED. >> I AM GOING TO ASK TOO AND I APOLOGIZE THAT THEY ARE KIND OF SILLY, BUT WHEN YOU SAY IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER BECAUSE A LOT OF US HAVE BLENDED FAMILIES, ARE WE TALKING -- AND I WOULD OBVIOUSLY -- ANYTHING THAT IS GOING TO LOOK BAD I WILL NOT DO.

IF WE SAY MY SISTER LIVES WITH ME. DO WE CONSIDER HER AN

IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER? >> I DON'T BELIEVE THE CHARTER WOULD CONSIDER A SISTER AN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBER. THAT WOULD BE CHILDREN OR A SPOUSE.

>> OKAY. AND THEN THE SECOND ONE, AND THIS IS -- IT IS SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC BECAUSE I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT USING SOMETHING FOR BENEFIT, BUT SOMETHING THAT

[00:45:04]

BE LIKE, I WILL TELL THEM EVERYTHING. >> IN TERMS OF THE ETHICS, YOU CAN RELEASE WHAT YOU WANT AS FAR AS INFORMATION. WHAT THE ETHICS CODE WE TALK ABOUT AND I REALIZE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE AND I WILL ADDRESS THAT IN A SECOND. WHAT THIS PROVISION THAT TALKS ABOUT INFORMATION IS, YOU CAN'T ACT ON INSIDER INFORMATION TO YOUR BENEFIT. IF YOU HAVE INSIDER INFORMATION, OTHER THAN WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT IN A SECOND, YOU CAN RELEASE THAT TO THE PUBLIC. YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IT. HEY, I THINK THE STREET DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO BE DOING THIS ROAD PROJECT. I THINK THAT'S IN THE WORKS.

THAT'S IN THE PLANS. THAT'S NO PROBLEM. WITH REGARD TO WHAT YOU CANNOT RELEASE AS AN INDIVIDUAL COUNCILMEMBER ARE THINGS THAT ARE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. UNLESS THE PRIVILEGE IS WAIVED.

YOU AS A COUNCILMEMBER DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO WAIVE ATTORNEY-CLIENT INFORMATION FOR THE WHOLE COUNCIL. YOU WOULD HAVE A RIGHT IF IT WAS FOR INFORMATION THAT WAS STRICTLY FOR YOU AND ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE SETTING.

WHAT I ADVISE YOU TO DO BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A LAWYER IS THAT -- IF IT INVOLVES ANY KIND OF COMMUNICATION ABOUT LAWSUITS OR POTENTIAL LAWSUITS, YOU NEED TO TALK TO ME FIRST BEFORE YOU SEND AN E-MAIL OUT ABOUT IT. UNLESS IT IS SOMETHING TALKED

ABOUT PUBLICLY. >> IT IS PRETTY MUCH FREE GAME UNLESS IT IS ATTORNEY-CLIENT

PRIVILEGE. >> YES. >> THANK YOU.

>> COUNCIL PERSON GARY YOU ARE RECOGNIZED. >> AND LET ME JUST SAY ONE THING. ANYTHING IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN ALREADY, LIKE THE LEGAL PAPERS THAT GET FILED IN LAW SUITS, YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THAT ALL YOU WANT BECAUSE ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC CAN GO TO THE COURTHOUSE AND PULL A COPY OF THE LAWSUIT OR PULL A COPY OF

OUR MOTION TO DISMISS OR WHATEVER THAT'S BEEN FILED. >> I GET CONFUSED ON THAT BECAUSE I KNOW THAT -- AND THIS IS FROM WORKING IN THE MEDIA, THAT SOMETIMES WHEN WE PULL PUBLIC RECORDS THERE ARE REDACTIONS. BUT YOU'VE ANSWERED MY

QUESTION. >> YEAH, I MEAN THE LAW REQUIRES SOME THINGS TO BE

REDACTED. >> THANK YOU. COUNCIL PERSON GARRETT, YOU

ARE NOW RECOGNIZED. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> SO IN THE PAST, MR. BAKER, I HAVE BEEN TOLD BY YOU THROUGH LEGAL OPINION THAT LIKE MY PARENTS WOULD BE CONSIDERED IMMEDIATE FAMILY AS IT PERTAINS TO BUYERS USING THE CITY'S DOWN PAYMENT.

>> PARENTS AND CHILDREN. >> YOU JUST TOLD MISS BUTLER IT IS NOT PARENTS OR

SIBLINGS. >> SHE DIDN'T MENTION PARENTS.

I THINK PARENTS WOULD BE INCLUDED. I DON'T THINK SIBLINGS WOULD

THOUGH. >> BUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID THOUGH, YOU JUST SAID ONLY

SPOUSE AND CHILDREN JUST NOW, BUT -- >> AND I AM TELLING YOU I SHOULD HAVE ADDED PARENTS. IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS IS USUALLY DEFINED AS PARENTS, CHILDREN -- SO IT COULD BE YOUR PARENTS, IT COULD BE YOUR CHILDREN.

>> I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT CLARIFICATION. I'M LOOKING BACK LIKE, OH, MAN, ALL OF THE BUYERS WE HAD TO INCONVENIENCE ON THE BREAK PROGRAM THE CITY OFFERS AND MY

PARENTS CAN'T USE THE PROGRAM FOR THEIR CLIENTS -- CLAIMS. >> YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT IS PARENTS, CHILDREN SPOUSES. THAT'S WHAT IMMEDIATE FAMILIES

ARE IN THE LAW. >> IS THERE A PROVISIONAL NOTE SO WE HAVE CLARIFICATION THAT IT IS PARENTS AND CHILDREN FOR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS OR WHERE DOES THAT INTERPRETATION

COME FROM? >> CASE LAW, READING THE CASE LAW AND IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN I THINK IT MAY ACTUALLY SAY IN HERE, BUT I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN AND SEE.

IT MAY NOT. I WILL HAVE TO GET BACK WITH YOU ON IT.

>> OKAY. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN. AND NOW BACK TO YOU.

COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN YOU ARE RECOGNIZED. >> ACTUALLY IN THE PRESENTATION HE JUST SAID IN THE WRITING IT DID SAY PARENTS, SPOUSES AND

CHILDREN. >> I THOUGHT IT DID. >> IN THE WRITING.

[00:50:03]

I READ IT, AND IT DOES SAY THAT. >> I'M SORRY.

I CAN'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING VERBATIM. >> YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE WHICH HAS BEEN MY QUESTION FOR THE LAST WEEK AND A HALF.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE FOR THIS COUNCIL WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ATTORNEY-CLIENT

PRIVILEGE? >> I AM NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE ASKING.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? >> SO IF I ASK YOU FOR

SOMETHING PERSONALLY, THAT IS MY PRIVILEGE, RIGHT? >> YES.

>> IS THAT ABLE TO GO TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE CITY COUNCIL?

>> NOT UNLESS YOU AUTHORIZE THAT. >> SO IF I SEND YOU SOMETHING AND REQUEST SOMETHING PERSONALLY, AND YOU SEND AN E-MAIL BACK TO ME AND CC EVERYBODY ELSE ON IT, THAT'S BREAKING MY CLIENT PRIVILEGE, RIGHT?

>> NOT EXACTLY. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU ARE ASKING.

IF IT IS SOMETHING INVOLVING AN INFORMATION REQUEST THAT IS COMMON TO OTHER MEMBERS LIKE THE ONE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, I HAVE GOTTEN MULTIPLE REQUESTS ON, THEN YES.

I CAN SHARE MY OPINION. IN THAT OPINION I COULD EVEN MENTION WHO ASKED WHAT.

>> IF I AM REQUESTING INFORMATION THAT I DIRECTLY ASKED YOU FOR -- HOLD ON.

>> IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS OFF LINE I WILL TALK ABOUT IT.

>> NO. I WANT IT TO BE WHERE EVERYBODY KNOWS AND WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE. IF I AM SENDING YOU SOMETHING AND ASKING YOU FOR INFORMATION, IS IT THE PRIVILEGE OF MY COUNSEL, OR IS IT THE PRIVILEGE OF EVERYONE

ELSE BESIDES MY COUNSEL? >> WELL, WHAT COME PLAW APTS -- COMPLICATES THE MATTER WITH THE E-MAILS I GET, THE CITY MAYOR DIRECTS MY DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES.

HE IS THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER AND HE SETS MY WORK PRIORITIES AND CAN TELL ME WHAT TO DO. THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE CHARTER.

I HAVE ALWAYS TAKEN THE POLICY THAT I WILL NOT KEEP SECRETS FROM A MAYOR NO MATTER WHO THE MAYOR IS. EVERY COUNCILMEMBER I TOLD THAT TO.

IF YOU -- >> WHY THE OTHER TWO? WHY THE OTHER ONE?

>> IF YOU TELL ME SPECIFICALLY, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT YOU WANT ME TO DRAFT LEGISLATION, AND YOU DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO KNOW ABOUT IT UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO DO IT, I WILL HONOR THAT REQUEST. I WILL DRAFT IT AND I WON'T SHARE IT WITH ANYONE. IF THE MAYOR ASKS WHAT I AM WORKING ON I WILL JUST SAY LEGISLATION REQUESTED BY COUNCILMAN ALLEN, BUT I WON'T SHARE WHAT IT IS.

YOU HAVE TO ASK ME THAT. >> SO MY QUESTION IS, I UNDERSTAND THE MAYOR.

HE IS A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL. I AM TALKING ABOUT OTHER

PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE COUNCIL. >> OH, I WON'T SHARE IT. YOU'RE RIGHT.

I COPIED CHIEF HALFORD ON THAT BECAUSE IT IS A CHIEF OF STAFF AND HE HAS A SAY IN WHAT I DO. HE IS AN EXTENSION OF THE MAYOR.

I GOT YOUR E-MAIL AND I WILL HONOR YOUR RESPONSE THAT YOU SENT ME.

IT SAID YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE SHARED WITH THE CHIEF OF STAFF.

I WILL HONOR THAT IN THE FUTURE. >> OKAY.

THANK YOU. >> COUNCIL PERSON KNIGHT, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

>> I WANTED TO BRING UP A POINT OF CLARIFICATION FOR EVERYONE'SETT TAU PHO LOCATION IN REGARDS -- EVERYONE EAST ETIFICATION. THE DEFINITION OF FAMILY LEGALLY, IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS ACCORDING TO THE LAW INCLUDE'S ONE'S SPOUSE, CHILDREN, PARENTS, GRAND PARENTS, SIBLINGS AS WELL AS ONE'S IN LAWS.

I THINK FOR FULL CLARIFICATION WE NEED TO SEE WHAT THE DETERMINATION BASED OFF THE STATE GUIDELINE IS FOR SIBLINGS SO EVERYONE HAS THAT CLARIFICATION 100%.

>> YES. AND IT CAN INCLUDE A SIBLING, I BELIEVE, IF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SIBLINGS THAT ARE MINORS. HER EXAMPLE -- I ASSUME SHE IS NOT A MINOR.

YEAH. SO IF YOU HAVE AN ADULT SIBLING LIVING WITH YOU, I DON'T BELIEVE THE ETHICS CODE IS GOING TO AFFECT THAT SIBLING.

>> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU.

I THINK WE ARE NOW READY FOR MS. ELISHA HODGE. I THINK I SAW HER ONLINE.

[7) PRESENTATION REGARDING OPEN MEETINGS & OPEN RECORDS LAWS]

MR. BAKER? >> SHOULD BE. >> I'M HERE.

>> GREAT. THANK YOU. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS IS ELISHA HODGE. SHE IS WITH THE TENNESSEE MUNICIPAL ADVISORY -- MUNICIPAL TECHNICAL ADVISORY. I WILL GET THE INITIALS RIGHT HERE IN A MINUTE.

SHE DID A VERY EFFECTIVE PRESENTATION LAST YEAR TO THE COUNCIL REGARDING THE TENNESSEE OPEN MEETINGS AND PUBLIC RECORDS ACT. SO I WOULD ASK YOU TO GIVE HER YOUR FULL ATTENTION. I THINK THE SAME GUIDELINE APPLIES THAT SHE WOULD LIKE TO FINISH THIS PRESENTATION, AND THEN WE WILL OPEN IT UP FOR A FEW QUESTIONS.

MISS HODGE, WITHOUT FURTHER ADIEU, WE WILL TURN THE FLOOR OVER TO YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR PITTS. THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME AND THANK YOU MR. BAKER FOR

[00:55:04]

I CANNOT SEE WHAT YOU ARE ALL SEEING AS FAR AS MY SCREEN IS CONCERNED, BUT I ASSUME YOU ARE SEEING THE FULL SCREEN WITH THE PRESENTATION SLIDE INCLUDED, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> WE SEE TENNESSEE OPEN MEETINGS AND PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

I WILL ASK TREY AND HUNTER IF Y'ALL DON'T MIND TURNING HER MICROPHONE UP SO WE CAN HEAR

HER A LITTLE BETTER. THANK YOU. >> OKAY.

I AM GOING TO COVER THE OPEN MEETINGS AND PUBLIC RECORDS ACTS THIS AFTERNOON.

AS THE MAYOR SAID, IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO WRITE THEM DOWN AND I WILL TRY TO ADDRESS THEM WHEN WHEN I CONCLUDE THE PRESENTATION. WE WILL START TALKING ABOUT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. IT WAS CODIFIED IN 1974. THE LANGUAGE IN THE OPEN MEETINGS IS FOUND IN 844-101 AND FOLLOWING. AS FAR AS OUR OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS CONCERNED, SOMETIMES YOU MAY HEAR IT CALLED THE SUNSHINE LAW.

THE OVER ARCHING PROVISION IF THAT IS 844-101A. THE LANGUAGE IN THAT PROVISION STATES THAT IT IS THE POLICY OF THIS STATE THAT THE FORMATION OF PUBLIC POLICY AND DECISIONS IS PUBLIC BUSINESS AND SHALL NOT BEACON DUCTED IN SECRET -- BE CONDUCTED IN SECRET. THE NEXT BULLET POINT DEALS WITH THE ABILITY OF CITIZENS TO PARTICIPATE. OFTENTIMES I WILL GET QUESTIONS ABOUT -- OR COMPLAINTS RATHER FROM CITIZENS THAT SAY, WELL, I ATTENDED SO AND SO'S MEETING LAST NIGHT AND THEY WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO SPEAK. SO THE LANGUAGE IN THE COURT CASES WE HAVE IN TENNESSEE SAY THAT CITIZENS ARE GUARANTEED THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE MEETINGS AND OBSERVE THEM -- I'M SORRY. THEY ARE GUARANTEED THE RIGHT TO OBSERVE THE MEETINGS AND ATTEND THEM, BUT NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN THEM.

THERE ARE SEVERAL CITIES THAT HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION IN YOUR MEETING.

IN THAT SCENARIO YOU HAVE SET UP BY ORDINANCE THAT CITIZENS HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMMENT, BUT OTHERWISE THERE IS NO INHERENT RIGHT IN OUR OPEN MEETINGS ACT FOR CITIZENS TO PARTICIPATE IN GOVERNMENT MEETINGS OUTSIDE OF CERTAIN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, BUT NOT REGULAR MEETINGS.

8-44-102 AND IT SAYS ALL MEETINGS OF ANY GOVERNING BODY ARE DECLARED TO BE PUBLIC MEETINGS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AT ALL TILES EXCEPT AS PROVIDED BY CONSTITUTION OF TENNESSEE.

THE COURTS IN TENNESSEE SAID THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHISEL AWAY AT OUR OPEN MEETINGS ACT BY CREATING EXCEPTIONS TO THE ACT. THE LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE SAYS EXCEPT AS PROVIDED BY THE CONSTITUTION AND THAT IS FOR ATTORNEY-CLIENT MEETINGS AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A FEW MINUTES. THE NEXT PROVISION HERE IS DEFINED WHAT A GOVERNING BODY IS. SO THE PROVISION ON THIS SLIDE SAYS ALL MEETINGS OF ANY GOVERNING BODY WILL BE DECLARED TO BE PUBLIC AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. WHAT IS A GOVERNING BODY? YOU CAN SEE THE DEFINITION HERE. A GOVERNING BODY IS THE MEMBERS OF ANY PUBLIC BODY WHICH CONSTITUTES TWO OR MORE MEMBERS, SO THAT IS WHERE WE START AT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES A GOVERNING BODY. TWO OR MORE MEMBERS WITH THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR OR RECOMMENDATIONS TO A PUBLIC BODY ON EITHER POLICY OR ADMINISTRATION. SO THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF WHAT A GOVERNING BODY IS.

THE NEXT DEFINITION IS A DEFINITION OF A MEETING. THE DEFINITION OF A MEETING IS A CONVENING OF A GOVERNING BODY OF A PUBLIC BODY FOR WHICH A QUORUM IS REQUIRED TO DELIBERATE OR MAKE A DECISION ON ANY MATTER. THERE IS ALSO LANGUAGE HERE AT THE END OF THE DEFINITION THAT SAYS A MEETING DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY ON SITE INSPECTION OF ANY PROJECT OR PROGRAM. HOWEVER, I WILL ALSO SAY THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE DOING AN ON SITE INSPECTION OF ANY PROJECT OR PROGRAM DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN USE THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DELIBERATE OR MAKE DECISIONS. WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU TURN THAT ON SITE INSPECTION INTO A MEETING.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TWO OR MORE MEMBERS WHO HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE DECISIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS ON PUBLIC BUSINESS AND THEN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES A MEETING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU GATHER TO MAKE A DECISION OR DELIBERATE TOWARD A DECISION ON PUBLIC BUSINESS. HERE ARE EXAMPLES OF PUBLIC BODIES. YOU ARE ALL A PUBLIC BODY.

ANY OF YOUR COMMITTEES THAT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE DECISIONS OR RECOMMENDATIONS BACK TO YOU ALL, THEY ARE GOING TO BE PUBLIC BODIES. BUDGET COMMITTEES, IDB, PARKS AND REC BOARDS, UTILITY BOARDS.

IT CAN RUN THE GAMUT WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IS HOW WAS THAT BOARD CREATED?

[01:00:02]

IT SAYS NOTHING IS GOING TO MAKE A CHANCE MEETING A PUBLIC MEETING. HOWEVER, THE LANGUAGE ALSO SAYS THAT YOU CANNOT TURN CHANCE MEETINGS INTO OPPORTUNITIES TO DELIBERATE TOWARD OR MAKE DECISIONS ON PUBLIC BUSINESS. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. WE GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. PEOPLE WANT TO GO TO LUNCH TOGETHER. THAT'S FINE.

BUT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND PEOPLE ARE WATCHING YOU. YOU SHOULD NOT TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE LUNCH WITH ONE OF YOUR FELLOW COUNCIL MEMBERS AND TALK ABOUT BUSINESS OF THE COUNCIL DURING THAT LUNCH. YOU HEARD ME SAY A COUPLE OF TIMES THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MEETING THAT IT IS EITHER GATHERING FOR THE PURPOSES OF MAKING A DECISION OR DELIBERATING TOWARD A DECISION. AND SO THIS JOHNSTON CASE THAT IS REFERENCED ON THE SLIDE ACTUALLY TALKS ABOUT DELIBERATION AT LENGTH. THIS IS A VERY GOOD CASE THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU READ IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE ISSUE. WHEN THE COURT TALKS ABOUT WHAT DELIBERATION IS, THEY TALK ABOUT THE WAY OF ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST A PROPOSED COURSE OF ACTION.

THEY SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU EXPECT TO SEE IN A COUNCIL MEETING. IT IS THE BACK AND FORTH.

I THINK WE SHOULD DO THIS. I THINK WE SHOULD DO THIS.

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD DO THIS.

THAT'S DELIBERATION. ANYTIME YOU ARE ENGAGED IN THAT, AND THERE ARE TWO OR MORE MEMBERS, TWO OR MORE OF YOU ALL AS COUNCIL MEMBERS DOING THAT, THAT IS GOING TO TRIGGER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

SO ONE OF THE COMPONENTS OF OPEN MEETINGS IS THE MEETINGS HAVE TO BE ADEQUATELY NOTICED.

THE LANGUAGE IN TCA68-44-103 TALKS ABOUT ADEQUATE PUBLIC NOTICE, BUT THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF WHAT THAT IS.

THE ONLY THING THE SECTION OF THE STATUTE TALKS ABOUT IS REGULAR MEETINGS AND THERE MUST BE ADEQUATE NOTICE OF THOSE AND ADEQUATE NOTICE OF SPECIAL PUBLIC MEETINGS AND THEN IT ALSO TALKS ABOUT OTHER NOTICE OF PROVISIONS THAT MIGHT BE IN THE STATUTE. SO WHAT YOU WILL WANT TO KNOW IS THAT YOU HAVE REQUIREMENTS IN YOUR CHARTER ABOUT WHEN MEETINGS ARE TO BE HELD. YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE REQUIREMENTS IN YOUR CHARTER. I THINK IT SAID THE FIRST THURSDAY OF EACH MONTH AND THAT'S THE LANGUAGE IN YOUR CHARTER AND CODE. AS FAR AS SPECIAL MEETINGS ARE CONCERNED, THOSE ARE THE MEETINGS THAT WERE NOT PREVIOUSLY SCHEDULED, BUT THINGS COME UP AND YOU NEED A SPECIAL MEETING LIKE THE ONE TONIGHT.

THE LANGUAGE DEALS WITH THE NOTICE OF REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIAL MEETINGS. SO I TOLD YOU IT SAID THAT THERE IS NO LANGUAGE IN THE CODE THAT DEFINE WHAT'S ADEQUATE PUBLIC NOTICE IS. AS FAR AS ADEQUATE PUBLIC NOTICE FOR REGULARLY SCHEDULED MEETINGS, THE COURTS SAID THERE IS NO FORMULA FOR WHAT THAT IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.

IT IS GOING TO BE BASED ON THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE LANGUAGE IN THE COURT CASES AND THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES. WE BARELY INFORMED THE PUBLIC A MEETING WAS GOING TO BE HELD.

THAT'S WHAT THE COURTS LOOK AT TO DETERMINE WHAT IS A PUBLIC MEETING. CALLED MEETINGS IS DIFFERENT AND YOU CAN SEE IT HERE. THERE ARE THREE THINGS THE COURTS LOOK AT WHEN THEY LOOK AT WHETHER THE NOTICE FOR A SPECIAL CALLED MEETING IS ADEQUATE.

THEY LOOK AT WHERE THE NOTICE WAS POSTED.

WAS IT IN A LOCATION WHERE THE COMMUNITY WOULD BECOME AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A MEETING SCHEDULED? THEY LOOK AT THE CONTENT OF THE NOTICE.

DOES THE CONTENT REASONABLY DESCRIBE SO A PERSON WOULD ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE ISSUES ARE THAT ARE GOING TO BE DISCUSSED IN THAT MEETING, AND THEN FINALLY THE COURT SAYS THAT THE NOTICE MUST BE POSTED IN ENOUGH TIME WHERE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTEND IF THEY WANTED TO DO SO. SO AGAIN, THERE IS NO FORMULA FOR ADEQUATELY SCHEDULED MEETINGS.

YOU HAVE HAD CONVERSATION ABOUT ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE SO I WILL BRING THAT INTO THE CONTEXT OF EXECUTIVE

[01:05:02]

AND SO WE HAVE A COUPLE OF AG OPINIONS IN TENNESSEE THAT DEAL WITH ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE, BUT THE CASE THAT I THINK IN MY OPINION IS THE LEADING CASE ON ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE IN EXECUTIVE SESSION WITH REGARD TO PUBLIC BODIES IS THIS COUNTY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION CASE. THIS IS A REALLY, REALLY GOOD CASE. ANOTHER ONE I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU READ IF YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN THIS ISSUE.

BASICALLY WHAT THE COURT IN SMITH COUNTY HAS SAID IS SET OUT THE PARAMETERS OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION. FIRST OF ALL WHAT THE CASE SAYS IS THAT THE ONLY TIME THAT A GOVERNING BODY CAN GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AS IS CONTEMPLATED HERE IS WHEN THERE IS PRESENT OR PENDING LITIGATION.

THE GOVERNING BODY HAS TO BE A NAMED PARTY TO THE LITIGATION FOR A REAL THREAT. SO SOMEBODY HAS ENGAGED IN AN ATTORNEY AND SAYS IF THE COUNSEL -- COUNCIL TAKES X ACTION I WILL SUE. THAT HAS TO BE HEARD BEFORE YOU GO TO EXECUTIVE SESSION. ONCE YOU GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION WITH YOUR ATTORNEY, THE ONLY THING THE COURT HAS SET OUT THAT CAN HAPPEN AT THAT POINT IS YOU ALL AS COUNCIL MEMBERS CAN GIVE THE ATTORNEY FACTS ABOUT WHATEVER THE ISSUE IS SUBJECT TO THE LITIGATION.

AND THEN YOUR CITY ATTORNEY CAN GIVE YOU LEGAL ADVICE BASED ON THE FACT THAT'S HAVE BEEN PRESENTED.

WHAT CANNOT HAPPEN DURING EXECUTIVE SESSION IS THERE CANNOT BE ANY DELIBERATION OVER WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NEXT OR WHERE YOU SHOULD GO FROM THERE.

YOU CANNOT MAKE DECISIONS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.

>> MS. HODGE MAY MAY I INTERRUPT.

I AM NOT ASKING A QUESTION, BUT WANT TO CLARIFY

SOMETHING. >> YES, SIR.

>> EXECUTIVE SESSION TO US IS OUR INFORE MALL -- INFORMAL NONVOTING MEETING HELD A WEEK PRIOR TO THE REGULAR SESSION.

>> SO IT IS DIFFERENT TERMINOLOGY.

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS CLEAR THAT YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT OUR NONVOTING INFORMAL SESSION.

>> NO, I AM NOT WHAT DO YOU CALL YOUR EXECUTIVE SESSION I

AM TALKING ABOUT? >> ELISHA, THIS IS LANCE.

WHAT THE MAYOR IS SAYING, THE NONVOTING SESSION WE CALL IT EXECUTIVE SESSION. IF WE GO INTO A NON-PUBLIC, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE PORTION OF A MEETING, WE JUST SIMPLY REFER IT TO ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE

MEETING. >> SO COURT REFERS TO IT AS EXECUTIVE SESSION. I'M SORRY.

THERE WAS SOMETHING IN MY MIND THAT MADE ME THINK I THINK THEY CALL IT SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT I COULDN'T

REMEMBER. >> WE WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE NEW MEMBERS THINK THE ONLY TIME WE CAN HAVE EXECUTIVE SESSION IS ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE.

>> I'M SORRY. AND I HOPE I DIDN'T CAUSE ANY CONFUSION. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

THOSE THINGS. >> PROCEED.

>> SO, YES. THE COURTS HAVE SAID THAT YOU CANNOT, IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSION I AM REFERRING TO, THAT YOU CANNOT DELIBERATE NOR CAN YOU MAKE A DECISION.

ONCE YOU GET TO THE POINT YOU NEED TO DECIDE, WHAT YOU DO AT THIS POINT, DO WE SETTLE THIS MATTER? WHAT IS OUR SETTLEMENT AUTHORITY? ALL OF THAT HAS TO BE DONE IN AN ADEQUATELY NOTICED PUBLIC MEETING. HERE IS A CHECKLIST OF THE THINGS THAT MUST OCCUR OR THE LIMITATIONS OR THE PARAMETERS OF THE EXECUTIVE SESSION THAT I AM REFERRING TO, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. AGAIN, THE ATTORNEY HAS TO BE THERE. IT HAS TO BE RELATED TO PENNED ORGANIZE THREATENING LITIGATION.

YOU CANNOT USE IT TO DELIBERATE OR MAKE DECISIONS.

FINALLY I LIKE TO REITERATE THAT YES IT APPLIES TO SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATIONS AND OFFERS AS WELL BECAUSE THAT COMES UP A LOT. BECAUSE OF THE DISADVANTAGE IT PUTS CITIES AND WHEN THEY HAVE TO PUBLICLY DISCUSS HOW THEY MIGHT BE WILLING TO SETTLE A MATTER OR WHAT THE SETTLEMENT FRAMERS MIGHT BE. THAT'S HOW IT IS RIGHT NOW.

AS FAR AS MINUTES ARE CONCERNED, THESE ARE THE THINGS REQUIRED TO BE IN YOUR MINUTES.

THEY ARE REQUIRED TO BE PROMPTLY AND FULLY RECORDED, OPEN TO PUBLIC INSPECTION AND EVEN IN DRAFT FORMAT.

THEY HAVE TO INCLUDE ALL OF YOU ALL WHO ARE PRESENT AND THEN ANY MOTIONS, PROPOSALS AND RESOLUTIONS OFFERED AND VOTES TAKEN. YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IF YOU OFFER ANY MOTIONS, PROPOSALS OR RESOLUTIONS, THAT THAT INFORMATION IS INCLUDED IN YOUR MINUTES.

THE CASE LAW DOES NOT MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN TECHNICAL

[01:10:01]

SO I HAVE INCLUDED THIS SLIDE TOO SO YOU ALL KNOW, AND I AM NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE AUDIT COMMITTEE -- AN AUDIT COMMITTEE IN CLARKSVILLE, BUT IF YOU DO, HERE IS SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE AUDIT COMMITTEE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION WHERE YOU ARE MEETING OUTSIDE THE PUBLIC, BUT IT IS DONE UNDER SOME VERY SPECIFIC PARAMETERS.

AS FAR AS PUBLIC VERSUS SECRET VOTING, THERE IS THE ABILITY IN THE STATUTE TO VOTE BY BALLOT, HOWEVER THAT IS NOT A SECRET PROCESS EITHER. WHILE YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO VOTE BY BALLOT, THE NAME OF THE INDIVIDUAL HAS TO BE READ WHEN THE PERSON PERSON'S VOTE IS CAST.

IF A ROLE CALL VOTE IS TAKEN IT MUST BE INDICATING EACH INDIVIDUAL VOTE. AS FAR AS ELECTRONIC PARTICIPATION IS CONCERNED, UP UNTIL COVID LOCAL GOVERNING BODIES DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO ELECTRONICALLY PARTICIPATE.

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS CARVED OUT IN THE STATUTE THAT I THINK ONLY APPLIES TO ONE CITY BECAUSE OF THE WAY IT READS.

THAT ABILITY WAS NOT IN PLACE PRIOR TO COVID.

AND THEN WHEN THE GOVERNOR STARTED PUTTING DOWN HIS EXECUTIVE ORDERS, THAT IS HOW THE CITIES OBTAINED THE AUTHORITY TO MEET ELECTRONICALLY.

AND SO JUST LIKE THE MAYOR DID THIS EVENING PURSUANT TO THE CURRENT EXECUTIVE ORDER 71, YOU HAVE TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO MEET AND THIS IS WHY WE ARE MEETING AND THIS IS A NECESSITY AND YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LANGUAGE RELATED TO HOW THE MEETING WILL TRANSPIRE.

THAT ORDER IS SET TO EXPIRE ON FEBRUARY 28TH, I BELIEVE.

WHEN THE ORDER EXPIRES IF THERE IS NOT AN EXTENSION WE GO BACK TO NOT HAVING THE ABILITY TO MEET ELECTRONICALLY.

AND THIS SLIDE IS PRE-COVID. BUT IT WOULD APPLY EVEN NOW.

THERE IS THE JOHNSON OPINION THAT TALKS ABOUT DELIBERATION. AND IT IS A VERY GOOD CASE THAT GIVES AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS INDIVIDUAL, THE PLAINTIFF IN THAT CASE, ACTUALLY CAME TO FIND OUT ABOUT THE OPEN MEETINGS VIOLATION THAT OCCURRED BECAUSE HE MADE A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FOR ALL OF THE E-MAILS SENT BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS.

WHEN HE ASKED FOR THE E-MAILS HE FOUND OUT THEY VIOLATED THE ACT IN THE E-MAILS. I WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT AS WELL. STWHR -- THERE IS LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE ALLOWING FOR INTERNET FORUMS. IT IS A WAY FOR CITIES TO HAVE -- TO CHAT WITH ONE ANOTHER, THE MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNING BODY, TO CHAT WITH ONE ANOTHER, BUT THERE ARE REQUIREMENTS HOW IT HAS TO BE SET UP AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AND MAINTAINED FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME. THAT IS ALSO SOMETHING ALLOWED IN STATUTE. SO THEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE IS A VIOLATION? UNDER OUR STATUTE IT IS 8-44-105 AND WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS IS IF THE VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT IS FOUND BY A COURT, THEN THE COURT WILL HOLD ANY ACTION THAT IS TAKEN VOID AND OF NO EFFECT. AND EXCEPT IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE IT AFFECTS PUBLIC DEBT. THE COURT WILL NOT NULLIFY THAT ACTION, BUT IT WILL BE AVOIDED OR NULLIFIED.

HERE IS JUST SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT THAT COURT PROCESS WOULD LOOK LIKE. THE IMPORTANT PART OF THIS SLIDE IS IF THE COURT WERE TO FIND THAT THE CITY COUNCIL VIOLATES THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT THEN THE COURT COULD HOLD THE COUNCIL UNDER THE JURISDICTION FOR A ONE-YEAR PERIOD AND YOU HAVE TO SUBMIT WRITTEN REPORTS DURING THE TIME FRAME THAT SHOWS HOW YOU ARE COMPLYING WITH THE ACT.

UNLIKE OTHER STATES THAT HAS PROVISIONS IN THEIR OPEN MEETINGS ACT THAT HAVE MONETARY PENALTIES, WE DO NOT HAVE THAT IN TENNESSEE. I AM ONLY AWARE OF ONE CASE

[01:15:01]

THAT WAS IN THE FORM OF -- BECAUSE THEY HAD SANCTIONS BROUGHT AGAINST THEM. IT WAS FOR VIOLATING SOME OF THE RULES RELATED TO THE PROCEDURE OF THE CASE.

THAT'S AS OPPOSED TO BEING A VIOLATION, THE PENALTIES BEING IN VIOLATION OF THE OPENS MEETING -- OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

AND THIS IS THE LAST LAW WE WILL TALK ABOUT WITH REGARD ON MEETINGS. THIS IS THE SLIDE THAT DEALS WITH CURING A VIOLATION. IF THERE IS A MESS UP OR SOMEBODY SLIPS UP AND SOMETHING HAPPENS THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED, IT IS NOT THE BE ALL, END ALL.

IT CAN BE CURED UNDER THE COURTS OF TENNESSEE.

AS LONG AS WHATEVER WAS DISCUSSED PREVIOUSLY, IF THERE IS NEW AND SUBSTANTIAL RECONSIDERATION OF THE ISSUE, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A VERBATIM WORD FOR WORD, BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE NEW AND SUBSTANTIAL RECONSIDERATION OF WHATEVER THE ISSUE WAS THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED, AS LONG AS THAT OCCURS IN AN ADEQUATELY NOTICED MEETING, THEN THAT VIOLATION CAN BE CURED.

YOU ALL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND HOW YOU ARE DOING IT , AND YOU KNOW THERE IS A WAY TO CURE IT.

IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED THAT WAS AN ACCIDENT OR THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

WITH THAT ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT BEFORE WE MOVE INTO PUBLIC RECORDS?

>> ANY QUESTIONS? COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN, YOU ARE

RECOGNIZED. >> YES.

IN THE EXECUTIVE SESSIONS, THE TYPE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHERE IT IS ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE MEETING, IS THAT -- SO AS A COUNCIL PERSON CAN I HAVE THAT MEETING WITH MY ATTORNEY MY OWN, OR DOES THE TEEN YOU ARE COUNCIL -- OR DOES THE ENTIRE COUNCIL HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN THAT

MEETING? >> I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM AS A ONE-ON-ONE. I SEE THESE EXECUTIVE SESSIONS -- BECAUSE THEY ARE RELATING TO PENDING OR THREATENING LITIGATION I HAVE ALWAYS SEEN THOSE HAPPEN IN THE ENTIRETY OF WHATEVER THE GOVERNING BODY IS.

>> IF THERE IS A REQUEST FOR SOMETHING FROM AN ATTORNEY -- IF THERE IS A REQUEST FROM AN ATTORNEY HAVING TO DO WITH COUNCIL BUSINESS, DOES THE ENTIRE COUNCIL GET A COPY OF THAT, OR JUST ONE PERSON CAN GET A COPY OF THAT?

>> SO, I MEAN, I HAVE HEARD THE DISCUSSION THAT YOU ALL HAVE HAD AND LINK SPOKE TO THAT ISSUE BEFORE.

HE IS THE CITY ATTORNEY AND WHATEVER THE PROCESS IS THAT

HE HAS, THAT'S THE PROCESS. >> OKAY.

>> THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE ON THIS PARTICULAR COUNCIL PERSON BUTLER YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT TOWN HALLS.

IT HAS HAPPENED HERE THAT WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT HAD A TOWN HALL , LIKE TWO OF THEM TOGETHER IN THE COMMUNITY. AND FROM THE THINGS ARE YOU SAYING FROM THE SLIDE SHOW, LIKE IF THEY GAVE ADEQUATE NOTICE AND THINGS LIKE THAT AND THEY WERE JUST TAKING PUBLIC QUESTIONS IT WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED DELIBERATING?

>> IF THEY ARE NOT GOING TO RESPOND TO THE QUESTIONS AND NOT DELIBERATE ON THOSE QUESTIONS, THEN I THINK YOU ARE CORRECT. BUT I THINK YOU GET INTO A VERY -- YOU GET ON A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE.

IF YOU SAY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A TOWN HALL MEETING AND DON'T NOTICE IT, AND THEN YOU HAVE CITIZENS COME AND START ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR MY COMMUNITY? HOW WOULD YOU ADDRESS THIS ISSUE IN OUR COMMUNITY? WHAT DO YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS ISSUE? THAT'S GOING TO GENERATE DELIBERATIONS IF BOTH OF THOSE MEMBERS START SPEAKING ON THE ISSUE TOGETHER.

OUT OF UH BRAN -- OUT OF ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION I SUGGEST YOU DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION AND NOTICE IT.

THE EASIEST THING TO DO IS JUST NOTICE IT.

>> THANK YOU. >> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A QUESTION ON OPEN MEETINGS LAW? OKAY, MISS HODGE, PROCEED WITH

THE OPEN RECORDS ACT. >> OKAY.

OPEN RECORDS OR PUBLIC RECORDS.

OUR PUBLIC RECORDS ACT WAS CODIFIED IN 1957.

IT IS FOUND AT 1075-01ITION OF PUBLIC RECORD IN OUR STATUTE.

IT IS A PRETTY ALL ENCOMPASSING DEFINITION.

DOCUMENTS, LETTERS, PHOTOGRAPHS, MICROFILMS, ELECTRONIC PROCESSING FILES, SOUND RECORDINGS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS COULD CONSTITUTE A PUBLIC RECORD.

THE IMPORTANT PART OF THE DEFINITION IS WHERE IT SAYS

[01:20:03]

DEPENDING ON WHOSE COMPUTER, WHOSE PHONE, WHOSE LAPTOP IT IS, IT COULD VERY WELL CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION WHICH IS WHY THE LANGUAGE WAS ADDED TO THE STATUTE THAT SAID YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO ACCESS THE MEDIUM UPON WHICH THE RECORDS ARE STORED. YOU ONLY HAVE A RIGHT TO ACCESS THE RECORDS THEMSELVES IF THEY ARE NOT CONFIDENTIAL UNDER THE STATUTE. SO HERE IS OUR OVER ARCHING PROVISION IN THE RECORDS ACT IN 10-75-03.

AND THIS LANGUAGE SAYS THAT ALL OF OUR RECORD ARE GOING TO BE OPEN BY PUBLIC INSPECTION BY ANY CITIZEN OF THIS STATE DURING NORMAL BUSINESS HOURS UNLESS THOSE RECORDS ARE CONFIDENTIAL UNDER STATE LAW. STATE LAW CAN ENCOMPASS A RIDE AWAY -- WIDE ARRAY OF LAWS AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A FEW SECONDS. THAT'S WHAT THE LANGUAGE SAYS. THERE IS ALSO LANGUAGE THAT IS LATER IN OUR PUBLIC RECORDS ACT THAT DICTATES THE COURTS INTERPRET THE LANGUAGE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO GIVE THE COURTS AS MUCH ACCESS AS POSSIBLE. UNLESS THERE IS A PROVISION IN STATE LAW THAT MAKES A RECORD CONFIDENTIAL THE RECORD IS PUBLIC. SORRY.

SO HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES OF WHAT CONSTITUTES WHAT TYPES OF RECORDS ARE ACCESSIBLE UNDER THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

PERSONNEL RECORDS. I'M SURE YOU ARE WELL AWARE OF THE FACT THAT ANYTIME ANYTHING HAPPENS WITHIN THE CITY AND IT MAKES THE NEWS, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT IS OFTEN REQUESTED IS THE PERSONNEL RECORD OF THE EMPLOYEES WHO ARE INVOLVED IN WHATEVER HAS OCCURRED.

DISCIPLINARY RECORDS ARE PUBLIC.

REFERENCES ARE PUBLIC. ALL OF THE INFORMATION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THINGS COVERED IN THE STATUTE, MEDICAL RECORDS OF COURSE ARE NOT GOING TO BE PUBLIC RECORD. MOST THINGS IN A PERSONNEL FILE IS ACCESSIBLE UNDER THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

CONTRACTS. CONTRACTS ARE PUBLIC.

E-MAILS, TEXT MESSAGES, VOICEMAILS AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

SO I ADDED AND SOCIAL MEDIA AND BOLDED THAT.

YOU ALL NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT IF YOU USE YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA PAGE, EVEN IF IT IS A PAGE THAT YOU HAD PRIOR TO COMING ON TO THE COUNCIL, IF YOU USE THAT AND TURN IT INTO A PUBLIC FORUM BECAUSE YOU ARE USING IT FOR PURPOSES OF COMMUNICATING GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT AT SOME POINT SOMEONE IS GOING TO MAKE A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FOR ACCESS TO THE THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN POSTING OR TWEETING OR WHATEVER, HOWEVER YOU ARE DISSEMINATING INFORMATION. THE CASE LAW IS NOT SETTLED ON THE ACCESSIBILITY OF THESE TYPES OF SOCIAL MEDIA RESPONSES AND POSTS AND TWEETS AND SUCH, BUT YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW THAT THIS IS A HOT AREA IN THE LAW RIGHT NOW.

JUST BE COGNIZANT OF THAT. AS FAR AS E-MAILS AND TEXT MESSAGES AND VOICE -- VOICEMAILS ARE CONCERNED THEY ARE REQUESTED ON A REGULAR, ROUTINE BASIS.

WHEN YOU ARE COMMUNICATING WITH CONSTITUENTS, DO NOT LEAD THEM TO BELIEVE THE COMMUNICATIONS ARE CONFIDENTIAL. IF THEY MEET THE DEFINITION OF A PUBLIC RECORD WHICH MEANS THAT THEY ARE MADE OR RECEIVED PURSUANT TO LAW OR ORDINANCE OR IN CONNECTION OF THE TRANSACTION OF OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT BUSINESS, THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

PROBABLY THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PROVIDED.

SOME OTHER THINGS I HAVE HERE ARE RECORDINGS.

RECORDINGS OF ALL MEETINGS ARE PUBLIC.

FINANCIAL AND PERFORMANCE AUDITS, THOSE ARE PUBLIC AS WELL. ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I WANT TO MENTION IS, SO YOU ARE IN THIS MEETING RIGHT NOW AND DOODLING ON THE SIDE OF YOUR PIECE OF PAPER YOU PRINTED OUT THE SLIDES ON AND YOU MAKE NOTES ABOUT THINGS I HAVE SAID AND THINGS LANCE HAS SAID, YOU MAKE NOTES ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT MIGHT RELATE TO GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.

THAT IS AGO SET -- ACCESSIBLE UNDER THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

JUST BE AWARE. ALWAYS BE COGNIZANT.

ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS TOLD EARLY ON WHEN I STARTED IN -- STARTED ADVISING ON RECORDS AND MEETINGS WAS IF YOU DON'T

[01:25:04]

DON'T SEND IT. CHANCES ARE IT COULD END UP THERE DEPENDING ON WHAT THE CONTINUE TENT IS.

DARK -- DEPENDING ON WHAT THE CONTENT IS.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE OVER OF A -- OVER ARCHING PROVISION OF THE OPEN RECORDS ACT IT IS PRESUME -- PRESUMABLY OPEN TO THE PUBLIC UNLESS THERE IS A STATE LAW THAT SAYS OTHERWISE. WHAT I HAVE PROVIDED TO YOU IS A LINK ON THE OFFICE OF OPEN RECORD COUNCIL'S WEBSITE.

AND WHEN YOU GO TO THAT LINK THEY HAVE PUT TOGETHER A COMPILATION OF ALL OF THE EXCEPTIONS TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT THEY COULD FIND. AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT UNLESS OTHERWISE PROVIDED BY STATE LAW, THAT'S WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT WHEN I TALK ABOUT EXCEPTIONS.

THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY 133 EXCEPTIONS.

SO PROVISIONS WITHIN STATE LAW , STATUTE OUT, CRIMINAL LAWS OR PROCEDURE, ADMINISTRATIVE RULES, SUPREME COURT RULES, COMMON AND FEDERAL LAW THAT MAKE EITHER WHOLE CATEGORIES OF RECORD CONFIDENTIAL OR MAKE SOME OF THE INFORMATION WITHIN THOSE RECORDS CONFIDENTIAL. I WANTED YOU TO BE AWARE THAT THE RESOURCE IS AVAILABLE AS WELL.

A COUPLE YEARS AGO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ADDED SEVERAL THINGS TO IT TO GIVE SOME MORE PARAMETERS ABOUT WHAT CAN AND CANNOT HAPPEN AND THIS IS A COUPLE SLIDES.

WHEN IT COMES TO A REQUEST TO VIEW RECORDS, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO INSPECT RECORDS THEY CANNOT BE REQUIRED TO MAKE IT IN WRITING. IF THEY WANT TO RECEIVE COPIES OF RECORDS THEY CAN BE REQUIRED TO MAKE THOSE REQUESTS IN WRITING. THE NEXT COUPLE BULLET POINTS TALK ABOUT HOW REQUESTS CAN BE MADE.

YOU CAN SEE THERE THAT A PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO SUBMIT A REQUEST TO INSPECT IN PERSON , BY TELEPHONE, FAX, MAIL OR E-MAIL AND THAT IN PERSON MIGHT BE A LITTLE LIMITED NOW BASED ON WHAT THE CITY'S PROTOCOL IS RELATED TO COVID.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE WAYS THAT THE PERSON CAN SUBMIT.

AGAIN, IF THEY ONLY WANT TO INSPECT THEY DON'T HAVE TO SUBMIT IN WRITING. SOME CITIES HAVE PORTALS.

THE CITY OF CHATTANOOGA HAS A CITY PORTAL THEY USE THAT IS ONLY RELATIVE TO MAKING PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST.

YOU CAN ALSO SEE THERE THAT THAT LAST BULLET POINT TALKS ABOUT THE WAY COPIES CAN BE MADE.

IF THERE IS A FORM THAT IS REQUIRED, THE FORM CAN BE REQUIRED TO BE UTILIZED IN ORDER FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE A REQUEST FOR COPIES. THE LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE OUT SAYS IF A CITY OR A LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS A FORM THAT IS REQUIRED, THAT THAT FORM HAS TO BE READILY ACCESSIBLE.

ADDITIONALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CHARGING IF A PERSON ONLY WANTS TO INSPECT RECORDS THAT DEALS WITH UTILITY RECORDS, THAT PERSON CANNOT BE CHARGED ANYTHING TO INSPECT THOSE RECORDS REGARDLESS OF THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT MAY TAKE TO COMPILE THE RECORDS ORIE -- RECORDS TO REVIEW OR REDACT.

THE LAPPING WEDGE IN -- THE LAPPING -- LANGUAGE SAYS THEY SHOULD BE PROVIDED THE COST OF THE COPIES INCLUDING ANY COST FOR LABOR. GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES OFTENTIMES ARE ASKED TO PUT TOGETHER LISTS OF INFORMATION. THAT IS NOT REQUIRED IF THE LIST DOES NOT ALREADY EXIST. THE LANGUAGE SAYS YOU ARE TO THE REQUIRED TO CREATE A DOCUMENT THAT DOES NOT ALREADY EXIST IN ORDER TO FULFILL A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST.

AS FAR AS CHARGING FEES FOR SEARCHES THERE IS NO AUTHORIZATION FOR THAT IN THE STATUTE.

WE HAVE SOME AG OPINIONS THAT SAY IF THERE IS A REASONABLE BASIS FOR REQUIRING AN APPOINTMENT THAT IS ALLOWED.

AS FAR AS IDENTIFICATION IS CONCERNED, THERE WAS LANGUAGE ADDED A COUPLE YEARS AGO THAT SAID THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY HAS THE RIGHT TO REQUIRE AN INDIVIDUAL TO PROVIDE GOVERNMENT-ISSUED PHOTO IDENTIFICATION AND THAT INCLUDES -- AND INCLUDES AN ADDRESS IN ORDER TO BOTH INSPECT AND RECEIVE COPIES OF RECORDS.

THERE IS ALSO SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT SAYS THAT GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES HAVE THE ABILITY TO ACCEPT ALTERNATIVE FORMS OF IDENTIFICATION BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY HAS A GOVERNMENT-ISSUED PHOTO ID WITH THEIR ADDRESS ON IT.

THAT INFORMATION, WHATEVER IT IS YOU REQUIRE SHOULD BESET OUT IN YOUR CITY'S PUBLIC RECORDS POLICY.

I HAVE A LINK TO YOUR PUBLIC RECORDS POLICY IN A COUPLE OF SLIDES. AND THE FINAL THING I WANT TO

[01:30:01]

AS LONG AS THE RECORD CUSTODIAN KNOWS WHAT IS BEING REQUESTED. IT SHOULD BOTANY -- SHOULD NOT BE A PHISHING EXPEDITION. I WANT CLARIFICATION OF WHAT THE ANY AND ALL IS. WHAT IS IMPORTANT FOR YOU ALL TO KNOW IN ADDITION TO THE COUPLE OF THINGS I TALKED ABOUT IS THAT THERE IS A TIME FRAME FOR RESPONDING TO PUBLIC RECORD REQUESTS. IF SOMEONE MAKES A REQUEST FOR ALL OF YOU ALL'S TEXT MESSAGES THAT RELATE TO A SPECIFIC OPT -- SPECIFIC SUBJECT, THE REQUEST SHOULD BE RESPONDED TO AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. THE LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE SAID PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS SHOULD BE RESPONDED TO AS PROMPTLY AS POSSIBLE. IF A PROMPT RESPONSE CANNOT BE MADE, THEN THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY HAS SEVEN BUSINESS DAYS FROM THE DATE THE REQUEST WAS MADE TO EITHER PROVIDE THE RECORDS THAT WERE REQUESTED, TO DENY THE REQUEST IN WRITING , OR TO INDICATE THAT ADDITIONAL TIME IS NECESSARY TO PRODUCE THE REQUESTED RECORDS.

SO AGAIN, REQUESTS SHOULD BE RESPONDED TO AS PROMPTLY AS PORTION BUT A REQUEST MUST BE SENT WITHIN THE SEVEN-BUSINESS DAYTIME FRAME. THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS ALSO SAID THAT IF A GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY FAILS TO RESPOND WITHIN THAT SEVEN-BUSINESS DAYTIME FRAME, THAT AUTOMATICALLY CONSTITUTES OR TRIGGERS THE ABILITY OF WHOEVER MADE THE REQUEST TO FILE A LAWSUIT OR SHOW CAUSE ORDER WITH THE COURT WITH FAILURE TO RESPOND IN THE STATIROILY SET TIME FRAME. HERE I HAVE LINKED BY THE OFFICE OF RECORDS COUNCIL. THE OFFICE OF OPEN RECORDS COUNCIL WAS ESTABLISHED SPECIFICALLY TO ADDRESS QUESTIONS RELATED TO PUBLIC RECORDS AND OPEN MEETINGS.

THEY ARE A GREAT RESOURCE. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO GO AND LOOK FOR ANSWERS.

I ALSO PUT A LINK TO THE CITY'S PUBLIC RECORDS POLICY.

AS FAR AS WHAT CAN BE CHARGED FOR COPIES, THERE IS THE SCHEDULE OF ESTABLISHED REASONABLE CHARGES AND THAT POLICY SAYS YOU CAN CHARGE 15 CENTS PER BLACK AND WHITE STANDARD SIZED COPY OR 50 CENTS PER STANDARD SIZED COLOR COPY. THERE IS ALSO ADDITIONAL CHARGES. THEY CAN GET ONE FREE HOUR OF LABOR AND AFTER THAT THEY CAN BE CHARGED IN THE FORM OF THE INDIVIDUALS RESPONDING HOURLY WAGES.

THEY ASK FOR COPIES THEY CAN BE CHARGED FOR THE POSTAGE.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT CAN BE CHARGED WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL MAKES A REQUEST FOR COPIES.

HERE I HAVE SLIDES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE IS AN ALLEGED PUBLIC RECORDS VIOLATION.

AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IN THESE SITUATIONS IS BASICALLY THE CITIZEN WHO MADE THE REQUEST WILL HAVE TO SHOW CAUSE TO THE COURT AND SHOWING HOW THEY COMPLIED WITH THE LAW.

YOU ALL JUST NEED TO BE AWARE OF THAT AND TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY. WE HAVE SEEN AN UP TICK IN PUBLIC RECORDS LAWSUIT AND OPEN MEETINGS LAWSUIT FOR THAT MATTER IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS AS CITIZENS BECOME MORE EDUCATED ON THEIR RIGHTS WE HAVE DEFINITELY SEEN MORE LAWSUITS FILED. A LOT OF THESE LAWSUITS, AND I WILL SWITCH TO THEM AT THE NEXT SLIDE -- A LOT OF THESE LAWSUITS HAVE REQUESTS IN THEM THAT THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITIES ACT IS WILLFUL. SO THAT MEANS IF THE COURT FINDS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL CAN HAVE THEIR ATTORNEYS FEES PAID. AND I HAVE SEEN A LOT OF CASES RECENTLY WHERE THE COURTS SAID YOU KNEW BETTER AND DID IT ANYWAY. THAT IS A WILLFUL VIOLATION.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN CASES 100,000 PLUS IN ATTORNEYS FEES HAVE BEEN AWARDED BY THE COURT.

AND THESE ARE PUBLIC RECORDS CASES.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS PLACED IN THE STATUTE OUT AND THE BENEFITS OF AN OPEN RECORDS COUNCIL IS THE COURTS SAID IF YOU SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF THE OFFICE AND THEY TELL YOU TO DO SOMETHING AND YOU DO WHAT IT IS THEY TELL YOU TO DO, AND THEN YOU ARE SUBSEQUENTLY SUED, THE COURT WILL LOOK AT THAT TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT YOU -- YOUR VIOLATION WAS WILLFUL. I HAVE SEEN WHERE THEY SAID THEY ARE PUBLIC AND BECAUSE OF THE OFFICE OF OPEN RECORDS COUNCIL AND THEY FOLLOWED THEIR LEGAL COUNCIL'S ADVICE, THAT THE COURT SAID, YEAH, YOU SHOULD HAVE PROVIDED THE

[01:35:02]

AND THAT SAVED THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY A LOT OF MONEY IN ATTORNEYS FEES. ONE OF THE LAST THINGS I WILL LEAVE YOU ALL WITH -- ACTUALLY I GUESS TWO YEARS AGO NOW THERE WAS A LOT OF COMPLAINTS LODGED WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ABOUT SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE WOULD MAKE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUESTS. THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY WOULD WORK FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS SOMETIMES TO PUT THE REQUESTS TOGETHER. AND THEN NOBODY SHOWED UP TO SUBMIT THE RECORDS OR PAY FOR THE COPIES.

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PUT LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE OUT TWO SESSIONS AGO THAT DEALS WITH THOSE EXACT SITUATIONS.

YOU CAN SEE THIS FIRST IN SUBSECTION 8 I HAVE QUOTED IN THE STATUTE OUT. IT DEALS WITH INSPECTION.

SO A PERSON MAKES A REQUEST TO INSPECT IN A SIX-MONTH PERIOD. THEY ARE NOTIFIED THAT THE RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE FOR INSPECTION.

AND THEY DON'T COME WITHIN A 15-DAY PERIOD TO LOOK AT THE RECORDS. THE LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE OUT SAYS THAT GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY DOES NOT HAVE TO RESPOND TO ANOTHER PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FROM THAT INDIVIDUAL FOR A SIX-MONTH PERIOD.

AND THEN THE SECOND SCENARIO THERE IS WHEN COPIES HAVE BEEN REQUESTED OF RECORDS, THE COPIES ARE REQUESTED AND THE ESTIMATE IS PROVIDED AND THE REQUESTER AGREES TO PAY THE ESTIMATE AND THEN NEVER SHOWS UP TO PAY IT.

THE LAPPING WEDGE IN THE STATUTE OUT NOW SAYS THE GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY DOES NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY ADDITIONAL COPIES TO THE INDIVIDUAL UNTIL THEY PAY FOR THE RECORD THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED. AND IF YOU ARE NOT AWARE, TCOG DOES A LOT OF SURVEYS AROUND THE STATE RELATED TO MEETINGS AND RECORDS COMPLIANCE. THEY ALSO PROVIDE INFORMATION WITH PUBLIC RECORDS VIOLATIONS.

THEY HAVE BEEN VERY INFLUENTIAL WITH OUR LEGISLATURE AND WITH OUR GOVERNOR AS WE HAVE DEALT WITH WHETHER OR NOT THE MEETINGS WILL BE EXTENDED IN HIS EXECUTIVE ORDER. THEY HAVE A LOT TO SAY AND THEY HAVE EARS TO THE THINGS THEY ARE SAYING.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE REALM OF PUBLIC RECORDS AND OPEN MEETINGS, THIS IS A GOOD WEBSITE TO GO TO. IT IS NOT ONE OF THOSE PLACES THAT YOU NECESSARILY WANT THE CITY OF CLARKSVILLE NAME TO SHOW UP AT. GENERALLY SPEAKING IT IS NOT SOMETHING FAVORABLE TO THE CITY.

JUST GO ON THERE AND SEE HOW INTRICATELY INVOLVED THEY ARE. THEY ARE IN MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF OPEN MEETINGS VIOLATION AND PUBLIC RECORDS VIOLATIONS. AND IT IS JUST GOOD INFORMATION FOR JOURNALISTS A LOT OF TIMES ABOUT WHAT THEY NEED TO DO AND WHAT THEY COULD BE FACED WITH WHEN THEY GO AND VISIT OUR CITIES. THE LAST SLIDE I HAVE IS THE RESOURCE SLIDE. AND THIS IS INFORMATION ON THE CONTACTS IN THE RECORDS COUNCIL.

IT IS ALSO A LINK TO THE WEBSITE AND MY CONTACT INFORMATION AS WELL. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS NOW THAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT WITH REGARD TO MEETINGS OR ANYTHING I HAVE SAID ON PUBLIC RECORDS?

>> OKAY, THANK YOU. WE HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, MISS HODGE. COUNCIL PERSON LITTLE, YOU ARE

RECOGNIZED. >> THANK YOU, MISS HODGE, FOR ALL OF THAT. I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE RECORDS. WHAT IS THE TIME FRAME OF RECORDS? IS IT FIVE YEARS WORTH OF RECORDS, 10 YEARS OR IS IT A LIFETIME OF RECORDS?

>> IT DEPENDS. THERE IS LANGUAGE IN THE STATUTE THAT REQUIRES MTAS AND CTAS TO DEVELOP RECORDS RETENTION SCHEDULES THAT THEY CAN ADOPT OUT RIGHT OR MODIFY TO FIT THE CITY'S PURPOSES. I WILL TELL YOU GENERALLY SPEAKING THAT DOES NOT DEAL WITH SERIES OF RECORDS.

IT DEALS WITH THE CONTENT OF THE RECORD.

SO THE WAY WE HAVE DEVELOPED OUR RECORD RETENTION SCHEDULE IS DEPENDENT ON THE CONTENTS OF THE RECORDS.

AND THEN THERE ARE RETENTION PERIODS THAT ARE SET OUT BASED ON CASE LAW AND BASED ON STATUTE OUT -- STATUTES THAT SAYS HOW LONG THE RECORDS SHOULD BE MAINTAINED.

>> THANK YOU. I JUST WANTED TO GET A QUESTION AS FAR AS OUR CITY AND POLICY.

>> COUNCIL PERSON GARRETT, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED.

>> THANK YOU. I HAVE A QUESTION IN REGARDS TO ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE AS IT RELATES TO A PARTICULAR COMMITTEE LIKE A FINANCE COMMITTEE.

IS IT RESTRICTIVE -- RESTRICTED TO JUST COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT SERVE ON THE COMMITTEE, OR CAN OTHER

[01:40:01]

>> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE MEETINGS PERSPECTIVE?

>> YES. OPEN MEETINGS.

IF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE GOES INTO ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY AND THERE IS OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT CAN THEY BE EXCLUDED FROM THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT

PRIVILEGE? >> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS. GENERALLY A FINANCE COMMITTEE IS NOT GOING TO BE WHO IS THE NAMED PARTY.

THE CITY WOULD BE -- GENERALLY IT IS THE CITY THROUGH THE MAYOR OR THE CITY COUNCIL OR WHOEVER THE GOVERNING BODY IS THAT WILL BE THE NAMED PARTY TO THE LITIGATION.

I WILL JUST TELL YOU THAT IN MY EXPERIENCE IT HAS BEEN THE ENTITY THAT GOES INTO ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE IS THE COUNCIL. ULTIMATELY THE COUNCIL IS THE ONE THAT WILL HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION ON HOW TO PROCEED

WITH THE LITIGATION. >> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL PERSON GARRETT.

>> I HAVE A QUESTION THAT WOULD GO BACK TO LANCE IF IT

IS OKAY. >> OKAY.

I WILL PUT YOU ON THE LIST, COUNCIL PERSON REDD.

COUNCIL PERSON GARRETT DO YOU NEED CLARITY?

>> THE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAS THE AUTHORITY TO SELL LAWSUITS UP TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT. WE ACTUALLY HAVE LAW ON THIS AND IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE FULL COUNCIL.

I'M SURE YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF --

>> I AM NOT AWARE OF Y'ALL'S ORDINANCES.

THAT IS A CAVEAT AND THAT MAKES IT DIFFERENT.

>> THANK YOU. COUNCIL PERSON BUTLER, YOU ARE RECOGNIZED. I'M SORRY.

IF YOU WILL HOLD ONE MOMENT AND COMING BACK TO YOU COUNCIL

PERSON GARRETT. >> I GUESS THIS IS ADDRESSED TO MR. BAKER THEN AND IT WOULDN'T BE FAIR TO STUDY UP.

IN ESSENCE I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE A FINANCE COMMITTEE TO APPROVE LAWSUITS OR SETTLE LAWSUITS, BUT FOR THE REST OF THE COUNCIL WE HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE DECISION MAKING AND MAYBE BEING ABLE TO IN THE OPEN SECTIONS AS WE ARE DISCUSSING IT, IT WOULD SEEM LIKE WHEN THE GENERAL PUBLIC IT IS WHY WE DID ONE THING AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SAY THE FINANCE COMMITTEE, THEY WILL SAY THE WHOLE CITY COUNCIL. IF YOU ARE ON THE HOOK FOR.

IT WE SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO RECEIVE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE AS IT RELATES TO ANY LAWSUIT.

IS THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE A FINANCE COMMITTEE THAT IS

APPROVING A CERTAIN AMOUNT. >> SO THE CITY COUNCIL AND MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL HAVE HAD THE ABILITY TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE AGENDA TO INCLUDE IN DISCUSSION OF THE ON GOING LAWSUIT. AND THEN WE WOULD GO INTO ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE IF WE WANT TO DISCUSS ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. THE ANSWER IS WE HAVE ALWAYS

BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT. >> I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN DEFINITELY AGREE TO THAT. THERE WERE TIMES I SAT HERE IN THIS SEAT AND THE FINANCE COMMITTEE STARTED IN THIS ROOM AND THEN THEY WENT INTO THE HALL AND I WAS NOT ABLE TO JOIN IT AND WAITED FOR IT TO DELIBERATE.

>> THAT'S BECAUSE THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE IN THE PAST HAS MADE A DECISION THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT ANYONE ELSE TO PARTICIPATE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL MEMBERS CANNOT ASK FOR AN AGENDA ITEM TO BE PUT ON THE FULL EXECUTIVE SESSION AND AGENDA, AN ITEM TO TALK ABOUT WHATEVER LEGAL ISSUE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT. WE HAVE DONE THAT BEFORE.

>> WHAT PROVISION ALLOWS FOR IT, IF I AM HERE FOR THE MEETING TO NOT ALLOWED TO GO IN THE BACK HALL?

>> THE FINANCE COMMITTEE HAD THE AUTHORITY TO SETTLE

LAWSUITS UNDER THE OLD -- >> ORDINANCE.

>> ORDINANCE. AND EVEN UNDER THE NEW

[01:45:01]

SETTLE LAWSUITS. >> I AM NOT NEGATING THEIR AUTHORIZATION TO SETTLE ANYTHING.

I AM SAYING WHERE DOES THE AUTHORITY COME TO EXCLUDE? EACH OF US WERE ELECTED BY OUR CONSTITUENTS TO SERVE.

WE DON'T HAVE THE SAME CLOUT AND YOU CAN'T COME TO MY MEETING. YOU CAN'T BE PRIVY TO THE INFORMATION AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, ARE YOU ABLE TO E-MAIL TO ALL OF US THE PROVISION IN THE CHARTER OR WHETHER THE ORDINANCES THAT SAYS A CHAIR AT THEIR DISCRETION CAN EXCLUDE THOSE RELEVANT TO THE CITY.

>> ALL THAT CAME ABOUT IS WHEN HE WAS A CITY ATTORNEY AND I WORKED WITH HIM WHEN I WAS CITY ATTORNEY AND HE WAS HANDLING LITIGATION. AND IT WAS HIS OPINION THAT TO PRESERVE PRIVILEGE NOBODY ELSE SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE ROOM TO PARTICIPATE OTHER THAN THE MAYOR, TO PARTICIPATE IN AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE MEETING WITH THE COMMITTEE WITHOUT RUNNING THE RISK OF WAIVING THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. THE REASON WHY WAS BECAUSE THE DECISION MAKER WAS THE FNA COMMITTEE.

IT IS A DIFFERENT -- IT COULD BE A DIFFERENT SITUATION NOW BECAUSE UNDER THE NEW ORDINANCE FOR I THINK IT IS 150,000 IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, THE FULL COUNCIL COULD WEIGH IN ON WHETHER TO SETTLE A CASE OR NOT.

SO YOUR POINT IS WELL TAKEN IN THE SENSE THAT THE WHOLE OF THE CITY COUNCIL SHOULD BE APPRISED -- APPRISED OF WHAT CAN BE REACHED IN AMOUNTS THAT HIGH AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. ALL I AM SUGGESTING TO YOU IS THERE IS A WAY TO DO THAT. THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A WAY TO DO IT EVEN UNDER THE OLD ORDINANCE WHERE THE FNA COMMITTEE GOT TO MAKE THE DECISION.

THAT DIDN'T MEAN THE OTHER CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS COULD JUST -- THEY JUST HAD TO BE TOTALLY IN THE DARK.

THEY COULD PUT AN AGENDA ITEM ON THERE AND SAY I WANT AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT -- I WANT TOE KNOW WHAT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE -- WHY THEY MADE THE DECISION THEY DID OR WHAT KIND

OF ADVICE ARE THEY GETTING? >> YOU SEE THAT'S AFTER THE FACT. IT IS REACTIONARY AND NOT PRO ACTIVE. IF THERE IS A MATTER ON THE AGENDA AND I KNOW IT IS COMING BECAUSE OF HOW IT IS PUBLISHED AND I SAY OH I WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON, AND I GO TO A COMMITTEE THAT I AM NOT PART OF TO GET THE INFORMATION AND THEN I AM EXCLUDED FROM THAT INFORMATION AND A DECISION IS MADE SO THEN LATER ON AT THE NEXT ONE AND WE DISCUSSED A DECISION THAT IS MADE AND THAT IS REACTIONARY AND NOT PRO ACTIVE AND THEN WE GO BACK TO AN OPINION BY AN ATTORNEY AND WHILE I RESPECT THAT HE IS AN ATTORNEY, WHERE IS THAT IN CASE LAW? THE MAYOR, WITH ALL THE DUE RESPECT TO YOUR TITLE IS A COUNCILMEMBER.

IF WE ARE ALL COUNCIL MEMBERS AND THE MAYOR IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE FNA COMMITTEE THEN WHY DOES THAT EXEMPTION ALLOW HIM TO BE PRESENT, BUT EXCLUDED ME AND LEFT ME SITTING HERE TWIDDLING MY THUMBS WHILE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE IS GOING ON? I WOULD MAYBE LIKE TO SEE -- NOT JUST HEAR ABOUT AN OPINION FROM A PRIOR ATTORNEY, BUT WHERE IN OUR CHARTER DOES IT SAY THAT AS A COMMITTEE CHAIR YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO EXCLUDE ANYBODY FROM ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE. IF YOU COULD E-MAIL THAT TO

US, THAT WOULD BE GREAT. >> IT IS NOT IN THE CHARTER.

IT IS FROM CASE LAW. THE CASE LAW DEALS WITH CORPORATIONS AND YOU HAVE TO EXTRAPOLATE FROM THAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF HOW WE DO THINGS WITH REGARD TO THE SETTLEMENT AUTHORITIES OF FNA.

THERE IS NO CASE OUT THERE THAT SPECIFICALLY DEALS WITH

[01:50:01]

>> CAN I JUST INTERRUPT HERE, BUT CAN WE GET ON OPEN MEETINGS AND OPEN RECORDS AND LET MR. BAKER -- I THINK HE HEARD YOUR REQUEST TO FIND THAT.

WE COULD SPEND THE BALANCE OF THE EVENING TALKING ABOUT IT.

IS THAT OKAY? >> THAT'S FINE.

THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> JUST LIKE CASE LAW DEFINES AS THE COUNCIL PERSON EARLIER SAID, IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS , I THINK THAT'S RELEVANT TOO.

MR. BAKER, WE WILL JUST PROCEED AND GET ON TO THE NEXT

-- >> I WOULD JUST -- JUST ONE LAST THING. THE DECISION IS NOT MINE.

IT IS MADE BY THE CHAIR AND/OR THE COMMITTEE.

JUST KNOW THAT. I DIDN'T MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

>> AND I WASN'T REFUTING IT, I WAS JUST MORE SO IS THAT EVEN ALLOWED TO BE DONE SO THAT IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN IF THERE IS NO LAW THAT ENABLES THEM TO DO IT.

THAT'S MY MAJOR CONCERN IS TO KEEP THAT INCIDENT FROM HAPPENING AGAIN. IT DOES MAKE YOU FEEL SOME KIND OF WAY WHEN YOU COME TO THE MEETING AND YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PARTS -- PARTICIPATE IN ALL OF THE

INFORMATION. >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL PERSON GARRETT. COUNCIL PERSON RED AND THEN

COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN. >> ALL RIGHT.

I WILL GET IT RIGHT COB -- COUNCIL PERSON RED.

LET'S GO TO COUNCIL PERSON BUTLER.

>> MINE IS FOR OPEN MEETINGS AND MISS HODGE.

I TOTALLY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE SOCIAL MEDIA THING AND ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS WHY.

LET ME START FIRST WITH -- SO HERE IN CLARKSVILLE CITY COUNCIL WE DON'T HAVE OFFICE OR GOVERNMENT FUNDS.

ANYTHING THAT I DO WITH CONSTITUENTS VIA THE TELEPHONE IS DONE ON MY PERSONAL PHONE. MY FIRST QUESTION IS WHERE DOES THE OPEN RECORDS REACH ON MY PERSONAL CELL PHONE?

>> IF YOU ARE SENDING TEXT MESSAGES ABOUT GOVERNMENT BUSINESS THROUGH YOUR PERSONAL PHONE, THEN IT IS GOING TO BE SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

>> LIKE ALL OF MY TEXT? MY SEXY TEXT MESSAGES TO MY

HUSBAND AND STUFF? >> IF IT MEETS THE DEFINITION OF A PUBLIC RECORD. THAT'S WHAT WE ALWAYS HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND. WHATEVER THE COMMUNICATION IS, IT HAS TO MEET THE DEFINITION OF A PUBLIC RECORD.

GOING BACK TO THE DEFINITION, MAY RECEIVE LAW, ORDINANCE OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE TRANSACTION OF OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT BUSINESS. IF YOU ARE TEXTING WITH CONSTITUENTS ABOUT PUBLIC BUSINESS, THEN YES THAT TEXT MESSAGE IS SUBJECT TO PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

>> OKAY, COOL. AND SO THAT KIND OF GOES INTO SOCIAL MEDIA, I GUESS TOO. MY FIRST QUESTION WAS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE SOCIAL MEDIA WE USED BEFORE WE GOT IN OFFICE AND NOW THAT WE ARE IN OFFICE, I MADE MINE A PUBLIC FORUM AND IT IS NOT A SECRET. DOES THE SCOPE OF THAT -- DOES IT START WHEN I GOT SWORN INTO OFFICE? DOES IT GO BACK TO THE END OF DAYS?

>> IT GOES TO THE DEFINITION. MAY RECEIVE ORDINANCE OR IN CONNECTION OF OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT BUSINESS THAT YOU WERE CONDUCTING UNTIL YOU BECAME ELECTED.

>> IT SEEMS A LOT MORE OBVIOUS WHEN YOU SAY IT.

THANK YOU. >> PROBABLY JANUARY 1ST AND NOT NECESSARILY THE DAY YOU WERE SWORN UNDER THE CHARTER. IT COULD BE INTERPRETED TO BE JANUARY 1ST WHICH IS WHEN THE PRIOR MEMBER'S TERM

ENDED. >> THANK YOU.

NOW GET IT RIGHT. COUNCIL PERSON RHED AND THEN

COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN. >> THANK YOU, MAYOR.

FIRST I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THANK YOU TO MISS HODGE AND LANCE FOR THEIR VERY PROFESSIONAL AND VERY INFORMATIVE PRESENTATION. I DO HAVE A QUICK QUESTION FOR LANCE THAT TESTIMONIES OUT OF I HAD FREQUENT CALLS FROM AT LEAST TWO CONSTITUENTS, AND RECENTLY FROM A COUNTY COMMISSIONER AND THEY HAVE A COMPLAINT CONCERNING A MEMBER THEY SAY DOES NOT LIVE WITHIN THEIR WARD, AND THIS MEMBER DOES NOT EVEN LIVE WITHIN THE CITY.

I KNOW IN THE PAST THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS TO USE RELATIVES OR FRIENDS' ADDRESSES TO STAY ON THE COUNCIL WHEN THE RESIDENCY HAS BEEN LEFT. THE FRUSTRATION IS I THINK AND THE QUESTION FOR MY CONSTITUENTS IS WHY IS THIS NEVER ENFORCED AFTER MONTHS OR PERHAPS YEARS? IS IT JUST TOO HARD TO ENFORCE? IS IT JUST SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE DECIDED THAT AS A CITY WE ARE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE THE RES DEN SHE ISSUE?

THANKS. >> I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE TIME OR THE PLACE TO DISCUSS IT REALLY IN ANY

[01:55:02]

UNDER THE STATE OUSTER LAW WHEN I RECEIVE A SINGLE WRITTEN COMPLAINT FROM A CITIZEN, MY DUTY, LEGAL OBLIGATION IS TO CONDUCT AN OUSTER INVESTIGATION.

BUT FOR THE FACT THAT THE SUBJECT OF THIS, OF WHAT YOU ROUGH -- WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS A SITTING CITY COUNCILMEMBER, AND BECAUSE THEY ARE THEY ARE ONE OF MY 13 BOSSES I HAVE TO ANSWER TO AND WILLINGLY, THAT DIDN'T COME OUT RIGHT, AND THEY CONTROL WHETHER I RETAIN MY JOB, AND THEY CONTROL WHAT MY SALARY IS, AND THEY CONTROL WHAT RESOURCES I HAVE, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, I HAVE A CONFLICT.

I HAVE ALREADY IN THE PAST WE HAVE GOTTEN A SIMILAR REQUEST FROM A CITIZEN TO CONDUCT AN OUSTER INVESTIGATION AGAINST A FORMER MAYOR, AND AT THAT TIME I TALKED TO THE BOARD OF RESPONSIBILITY AND THEY GAVE ME WRITTEN ADVICE ABOUT IT AND THEY TOLD ME THAT I HAVE A CONFLICT AND THAT I WOULD HAVE TO REFER THESE OUSTER INVESTIGATION REQUESTS TO THE LOCAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY. AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID PREVIOUSLY. AND THAT'S WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH THE TWO COMPLAINTS I'VE GOTTEN.

ONE THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF AND ONE THAT YOU'RE NOT AND I HAVE SPOKEN TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.

WE WILL BE MEETING SOON. I AM INFORMED THAT THEY WILL INVESTIGATE THE MATTER. THEY PROBABLY WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE TENNESSEE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIONS TO INVESTIGATE. I CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER TO DO WITH IT OTHER THAN PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION THAT I HAVE AND I HAVE RECEIVED. THERE HAS BEEN ONE OTHER COMPLAINT FROM ANOTHER CITIZEN ABOUT THIS SITUATION.

THEY HAVE NOT YET DECIDED WHETHER THEY WANT TO PUT IT IN WRITING. I THINK THEY ARE STILL DEBATING IT AND THAT'S ALL I WILL SAY.

>> LET'S STOP THERE. COUNCIL PERSON REDD, ANYTHING

ELSE? >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE IF WE DO GET AN ETHICS COMPLAINT, LANCE IS STILL THE ETHICS OFFICER, SO WE CAN JUST REFER OUR CONSTITUENT TO LANCE?

IS THAT CORRECT? >> THAT IS CORRECT.

>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. THANK YOU, LANCE.

>> COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN. >> SO WHAT IF -- WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR US TO GET RECORDS? IS THERE A SPECIFIC PROCESS FOR A COUNCIL PERSON TO GET

RECORDS? >> MR. BAKER?

>> YOU CAN GO DIRECTLY TO THE DEPARTMENT HEAD AND ASK FOR RECORDS THAT YOU WANT AND NOT JUST RECORDS, BUT INFORMATION EVEN. THE MAYOR TALKED TO THE DEPARTMENT HEADS ABOUT THIS ALREADY.

IN THE PAST SOME MAYORS HAVE TAKEN A HARD LINE ON THIS, AND THEY WANTED ALL OF THE INFORMATION REQUESTS AND THE INFORMATION REQUESTS TO BE FILTERED THROUGH THEM AND MAYOR PITTS CAN CORRECT ME IF I SAY SOMETHING WRONG HERE, BUT WHAT HE TOLD US IS COOPERATE FULLY AND GIVE THEM WHAT THEY NEED AND WHAT THEY WANT, BUT IF THE REQUESTS GET TO BE SO ON -- ONEROUS, EITHER SO FREQUENT OR THEY ARE ASKING YOU TO GATHER THINGS THAT WILL TAKE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF TIME OR -- AND THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM USUALLY IS, BUT THEY ARE ASKING THE DEPARTMENT HEADS TO COMPILE RECORDS THAT DON'T ALREADY EXIST AND IT IS GOING TO TAKE TWO OR THREE PEOPLE IN THE DEPARTMENT AND HOURS OR A WEEK OR MORE OF WORK WHEN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE WORKING ON CITIZEN STUFF AND DOING THEIR JOB. PART OF THEIR JOB IS TO HELP YOU DO YOUR JOB. IF IT GETS TO BE TOO BURDENSOME, HE HAS ASKED US TO COME TO HIM AND SAY, HEY, LOOK, THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKED TO DO.

IT IS REALLY IMPACTING THE OPERATIONS OF OUR DEPARTMENT.

AND THEN HE WOULD, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY TALK TO YOU AND SAY CAN YOU SCOPE IT DOWN SOME? CAN WE TALK THRAW THIS AND WORK THROUGH IT? WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR WILL TAKE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF LABOR HOURS.

THE OTHER THING, AND THIS IS THE LAST THING, BUT I WILL ASK YOU TO KEEP IN MIND THE PROVISION OF THE CHARTER.

[02:00:08]

AND WE WILL TREAT YOU LIKE ANY OTHER CITIZEN AND WE WILL PROVIDE THE RECORDS TO YOU. AS COUNCIL MEMBERS THOUGH, YOU CAN GET SOME THINGS THAT MAYBE THE CITIZENS MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GET. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS YOU CAN ASK QUESTIONS AND GET INFORMATION.

YOU CAN GET ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT GOES BEYOND MERE RECORDS, AND THAT'S TO HELP YOU DO YOUR JOB.

SO RECORDS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN JUST ASKING FOR INFORMATION. JUST KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE DEPARTMENTS, THEY HAVE A LOT ON THEM AND THE REASON WHY THIS CHARTER DIVISION -- AND I WILL JUST TALK ABOUT IT HERE IN JUST A SECOND, BUT THE REASON IT IS IN THERE IS CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT IT IS LIKE BEING A DEPARTMENT HEAD OR SOMEBODY WORKING IN A DEPARTMENT, HIGH LEVEL MANAGEMENT AND YOU HAVE 13 PEOPLE ASKING YOU QUESTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING AND WANTING YOU TO DO SOMETHING AND MAYBE ALL 13 ARE ASKING FOR SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

MAYBE ONE WANTS A SPREAD SHEET DONE THIS WAY AND ANOTHER WANTS IS DONE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

YOU CAN SEE HOW IT CAN BE VERY BURDENSOME ON THE DEPARTMENTS. THEY GET REQUESTS FROM ALL OF THE COUNCIL MEMBERS. AND THAT IS WHY THIS PROVISION IN THE CHARTER WHICH HAS BEEN IN THERE FOR DECADES IS TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE. THIS IS IN ARTICLE 2 AND SECTION 15. THE CITY COUNCIL AND ITS COMMITTEES SHALL ACT IN ALL MATTERS AS A BODY.

AND NO MEMBER SHALL SEEK INDIVIDUALS -- INDIVIDUALLY TO INFLUENCE THE OFFICIAL ACTS OF THE MAYOR OR ANY OTHER OFFICER OR EMPLOYEE OF THE CITY OR TO DIRECT OR REQUEST THE APPOINTMENT OF ANY PERSON TO OR AS A REMOVAL FROM ANY OFFICE OR POSITION OF EMPLOYMENT.

OR TO INTERFERE IN ANYWAY WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF DUTIES BY ANY OFFICER OR EMPLOYEE. SO YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER A COUPLE THINGS. WHEN YOU START CALLING UP DEPARTMENT HEADS AND TELLING THEM TO DO STUFF, IF YOU WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET INFORMATION, THAT'S ONE THING. JUST TRY NOT TO BE TOO BURDENSOME ABOUT IT. WHEN YOU STARTLING THEM TO DO STUFF THAT YOU ARE BLOB DASH -- DASH YOU ARE PROBABLY VIOLATING THE CHARTER AND ANOTHER COUNCILMEMBER MAY CALL THEM AND SAY NO, MAKE THIS A PRIORITY, OR I WANT YOU TO DO SOMETHING THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THAT COUNCILMEMBER TOLD YOU.

THAT'S WHY OUR CHARTER ALSO GOES ON TO SAY IN ANOTHER SECTION THAT IT IS THE MAYOR WHO IS THE DAY-TO-DAY CHIEF EXECUTIVE AND WHO HAS AUTHORITY TO DIRECT THE ACTIVITIES OF DEPARTMENT HEADS AND DEPARTMENTS.

SO THE LAST SENTENCE THOUGH IS GOOD FOR THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. IT GOES ON TO SAY NOTHING CONTAINED HERE IN SHALL PREVENT THE CITY COUNCIL OR ITS COMMITTEES, AND NOTICE IT DOESN'T SAY CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. IT SAYS NOTHING CONTAINING IN HERE SHALL PREVENT THE CITY COUNCIL AS A BODY OR ITS COMMITTEES FROM CONDUCTING SUCH INQUIRIES INTO THE OPERATION OF CITY GOVERNMENT AND THE CONDUCT OF THE CITY'S AFFAIRS AS THE CITY COUNCIL OR ITS COMMITTEES MAY DEEM NECESSARY. YOU HAVE THE ABILITY IN COMMITTEE AND IN COUNCIL TO INQUIRE INTO THINGS AND TO ASK QUESTIONS. SO THAT'S REALLY ALL I WANTED

TO SAY ABOUT THAT. >> OKAY.

COUNCIL PERSON ALLEN ARE YOU RECOGNIZED.

>> SO I HEARD EVERYTHING YOU ARE SAYING.

WE AS A CITY COUNCIL DO HAVE A RIGHT TO INQUIRE.

>> YES, MA'AM. >> BUT SO OFTEN WHEN WE ARE INQUIRING, WE ARE NOT GETTING ANY ANSWERS.

WE ARE INQUIRING AND WE ARE ASKING QUESTIONS ON THE LAST THURSDAY I WAS IN A MEETING AND I ASKED, HEY, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THE FINANCE COMMITTEE'S'S -- HOW MUCH WE ARE PAYING. HE LOOKED OVER AT ME AND SAID

WE'LL GET YOU THAT. >> AND WE ARE.

>> HOLD ON. AND SO IT IS MORE LIKE IF WE ARE HAVING QUESTIONS, IT IS NOT BECAUSE WE ARE TRYING TO BE NOSEY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE WE ARE -- IT IS BECAUSE WE ARE BEING ASKED QUESTIONS.

WE OWE THAT VERY PURE ANSWER -- BECAUSE WE DON'T

[02:05:01]

CONSTITUENTS DOWN. >> KEEP IN MIND THAT WHAT YOU ASKED FOR WE ARE GATHERING THAT INFORMATION.

WE MAY NOT HAVE IT -- WE DON'T HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT'S BEEN SPENT WITH REGARD TO SETTLEMENTS OR JUDGMENTS.

WE ARE GATHERING THAT INFORMATION, AND I HOPE TO BE ABLE TO SEND IT TO YOU TONIGHT OR TOMORROW.

>> BUT ISN'T THAT SOMETHING WE REPORT ON EVERY MONTH? ISN'T THERE A MONTHLY REPORT ON THOSE NUMBERS ?

>> THE ATTORNEY FEES IS SOMETHING WE REPORT ON EVERY MONTH AND WE HAVE A SPREAD SHEET WE WILL PROVIDE TO YOU.

FRANK -- FRANKLY, YEAH, YOU COULD HAVE ACCESSED IT BECAUSE IT IS REPORTED EVERY MONTH, BUT WE ARE GONNA GIVE IT TO

YOU. >> I ASKED WHERE DO I GET IT FROM, AND I WAS TOLD YOU WOULD GIVE IT TO ME.

IF SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE TOLD ME I HAD ACCESS TO IT I WOULD

HAVE -- >> IT IS REPORTED EVERY MONTH, AND IT IS ON THE FNA COMMITTEE'S AGENDA.

>> THANK YOU. >> YES, MA'AM.

>> ANYTHING ELSE COUNCIL PERSONNEL?

>> NO. >> THANK YOU.

>> ANYBODY ELSE HAVE A QUESTION OF MISS HODGE REGARDING OPEN MEETINGS, ORDER -- OPEN RECORDS.

>> CAN YOU HEAR ME, MAYOR? >> YES, COUNCIL PERSON

REYNOLDS, WE CAN HEAR YOU. >> YES, I'M SORRY.

MISS HODGE, I DID HAVE A QUESTION TO THE OPEN RECORDS.

OR THE MEETINGS. YOU WERE DISCUSSING WITH TWO CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS AT A TOWN HALL AND AT THE END YOU SAID WE HAD TO NOTICE IT. I'M SORRY.

I'M SURE YOU SAID WHAT THAT WAS, BUT I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU

MEANT BY NOTICE IT. >> YES.

IT IS JUST PUBLIC NOTICE. YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC NOTICE. JUST LIKE YOU ALL PROVIDE PUBLIC NOTICE OF THE MEETING TODAY, THAT WAS SENT OUT TO THE PUBLIC OR POSTED IN PUBLIC PLACES.

HOWEVER IT IS YOU ALL POST YOUR NOTICE.

IT WILL JUST SAY THAT WE ARE GONNA HAVE A TOWN HALL MEETING, X DATE, X TIME, X PLACE BECAUSE THOSE ARE NOT REGULARLY SCHEDULED AND THEY WOULD BE SPECIAL CALLED.

AND SO YOU WOULD NEED TO OUTLINE THOSE ITEM THAT'S WOULD BE DISCUSSED DURING THAT MEETING.

>> OKAY. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, COUNCIL PERSON ROAN -- REYNOLDS.

ANYTHING ELSE? >> NO.

THANK YOU, MAYOR. >> COUNCIL PERSON KNIGHT YOU

ARE RECOGNIZED. >> I WANTED TO CAVEAT WHAT COUNCILMEMBER REYNOLDS WAS ASKING ABOUT.

I WILL GIVE A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES AND WON'T SAY ANY NAMES. THERE WERE SEVERAL EXAMPLES WHERE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS HAVE DONE TOWN -- DONE TOWN HALLS TOGETHER AND THE DEFINITION OF NOTICE IS PROVIDING THE INFORMATION ON THE COUNTY OR CITY IN THIS REGARD CALENDAR AND PROVIDING AT LEAST A WEEK'S NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC TO LET THEM KNOW THE TOWN HALL IS TAKING PLACE SO THE PUBLIC HAS AMPLE NOTIFICATION OF WHEN THAT TOWN

HALL IS BEING CONDUCTED. >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL PERSON -- COUNCIL PERSON KNIGHT.

ANYBODY ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS? >> I MOVE TO ADJOURN, MAYOR.

>> MOTION TO ADJOURN WITHOUT OBJECTION.

>> CAN I JUST SAY ONE THING ABOUT THAT? YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT A WEEK AHEAD OF TIME FOR THE CITY.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

IT HAS TO BE A REASONABLE TIME.

I BELIEVE THE COURTS WOULD SAY AT LEAST 24 HOURS AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT MISS HODGE WOULD SAY.

YOUR POINT IS RIGHT ON POINT. YOU CANNOT JUST ADVERTISE ON -- ARE YOU ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND SAY YOU ARE GONNA HAVE A TOWN HALL. IT HAS TO BE DONE THROUGH THE

CITY. >> WITHOUT OBJECTION WE ARE ADJOURNED. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU, MISS HODGE,

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.